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Thread: Forum "suggestion box"

  1. #841
    Lili's Cook/Lawyer/Hacker VIP / Donator IceGuru's Avatar
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    Expand the general forums, force general discussion to be done in English only, and get an IRC.

    IE: rebuild the community...
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  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceGuru View Post
    Expand the general forums, force general discussion to be done in English only, and get an IRC.

    IE: rebuild the community...
    I persume u mean the chatbox with regards to general discussion and not the forum, tbf its a community wide item, and it should not be limited to one language. As for an IRC we have/had one, I used to spend all my time in there a few years back.
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  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaDevil2 View Post
    I persume u mean the chatbox with regards to general discussion and not the forum, tbf its a community wide item, and it should not be limited to one language. As for an IRC we have/had one, I used to spend all my time in there a few years back.
    I disagree, allowing sections for different languages separates us and creates a barrier. Plus I don't mean Alizee discussion forums just general areas ( I didn't have the chatbox in mind but now I do).
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  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceGuru View Post
    I disagree, allowing sections for different languages separates us and creates a barrier.
    There I would completely disagree with, Not everyone can speak English, forcing people to speak in one language (even in just general discussion areas) would exclude members of the forum who can not speak english. Plus who would want to join a forum where for certain discussions you are forced to spak a specific language
    Last edited by AlphaDevil2; 15th December 2011 at 15:14.
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  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaDevil2 View Post
    There I would completely disagree with, Not everyone can speak English, forcing people to speak in one language (even in just general discussion areas) would exclude members of the forum who can not speak english. Plus who would want to join a forum where for certain discussions you are forced to spak a specific language
    Plenty I've been on larger forums than AF and forcing one language keeps everyone in the same book (same page is another story).

    Forcing GENERAL discussion to be done in English would push everyone into one place and increase discussion. It would start discussion that might not ahve otherwise taken place had they not been speaking the same language.
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  6. #846
    Alizée Fan Matevz91's Avatar
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    I decided to post this in the suggestions thread, as I don`t think that this topic deserves new thread. This is actually not a suggestion, it is only a observation, feel free to ignore it.

    Yesterday I have been thinking about the definition of Off-Topic posts (OT).
    In rules I found this: "Stay on-topic. Keep your posts relevant to the thread's subject. A little bit of leeway will be given, but if a discussion begins to veer too far off-topic, it is often better to create a new thread about this other subject. Topics may be split if discussion has gone too far off-topic."

    I am well aware of the shaky nature of definitions of OT, as I was admin myself in high traffic groups on FB (back then when FB groups still had forums), where some pretty serious and deep discussions were held and I have seen threads with >100 posts, following after OT post, imagine what kind of a deviation that was
    Back in the days, I defined OT as everything else but minor deviations from the topic; the nature of Facebook threads forced me/us to adopt such definitions.

    Regular forums are different, they allow much more freedom.
    Orion, I hope that you won`t be mad as I will disclose part of what you have written to me: "Sometimes mods have to use their discretion and allow certain minor OT, but act when a post invites further OT. "

    I interpret this as double deviation. Say that we are talking about topic A, then one posts dA, but this still is not off topic. OT posts are those which can be marked as (dA)^2 or ddA. For example (thread about space exploration):

    no OT posts
    LEVEL OF DEVIATION - TOPIC
    A - space exploration
    A - space exploration
    A - space exploration
    dA - university when one learns about space exploration
    dA - university when one learns about space exploration
    A - space exploration
    dA - military spending
    A - space exploration
    ...

    OT posts exist
    LEVEL OF DEVIATION - TOPIC
    A - space exploration
    A - space exploration
    A - space exploration
    dA - university when one learns about space exploration
    dA - university when one learns about space exploration
    A - space exploration
    dA - military spending
    A - space exploration
    dA - military spending
    ddA - military spending in England and USSR * OT
    ...

    but here we have a problem, because military spending in cold war was closely linked to space race and thus space exploration,
    therefore, ddA can become B, which is equivalent to A

    (possible outcome)
    ...
    ddA - military spending in cold war
    dddA = B ~ A - space exploration in cold war (~:= equivalence relation)
    ... --> problem: not OT anymore, after 3 deviations. (!) In this case we can define all sequental ddA and dddA posts as one large logical post A*, therefore there are no OT posts anymore! (A* = dA,ddA,dddA)
    A
    A
    A
    dA
    dA
    A
    dA
    A
    A* <-- one logical post (consists of several "physical" subposts), which is not OT!
    A

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    And where is the problem here?
    1) If we move this logical post A* (which is really a group of posts dA,ddA and dddA) into a new thread (thread about military spending), then we instantly create OT in the new thread (because dddA from the old thread about space exploration will be logically linked to the old thread), while at the same time we can`t leave dddA in the old thread and move all previous posts into a new thread, because then dddA won`t make sense in the old thread. The only solution seems to be to delete the dddA post.

    2) If we mark A* as OT, we loose large part of potentially good information in the thread about space travel (even if A* primarly tackles military spending, but then manages to return to the original topic, after small number of posts (say <4)), thus limiting or perhaps even disrupting further discussion in the original thread about space travel.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    What can we learn from this?
    That mods work is even harder as they perhaps think, if he/she wants to encourage good discussions and doesn`t want to hinder growth of new areas of discussion (around the same topic) and that identifying and resolving real OT is way harder than most forum users think.

    I would prefer if groups of posts are to be identified as OT instead of particular posts, except if OT is clear as the sky (well, it is going to rain here wher I live so the sky really isn`t that clear ).

    I recommend that users who produce potentially OT posts (those posts that still have some connection with the original topic) are first to be warned about potential OT, and that they should either prove the connection with original topic, have their posts removed into a new thread or into the OT thread.
    (that is almost that, what you did in my case, Orion, good work!).

    Either way, I say that discussion must always end in the original topic, and if OT posts fail to meet that condition after for example 3 posts, then they should be marked as true OT and acted upon. (as opposed to the double deviation rule, which acts on each post individually).

    And please don`t get me wrong, I am just expressing my opinion, this is AF anyway so don`t take me seriously.
    Last edited by Matevz91; 22nd June 2012 at 18:25. Reason: Added some text at the end to clarify (and at the beginning)
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  7. #847
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    The OT post I moved yesterday was about military spending and war. . . it was in the space exploration thread, and although those subjects can be brought up in terms of space exploration spending, etc, if a post or topic invites only a discussion about war and spending, not having anything to do with the original topic, a mod can act before such a deiscussion starts and have it commence in another thread, instead. That's why discretion comes into play with mods . . they have to judge on basic OT, and OT inviting further OT posts. That is why I also PMed you and let you know certain things and also asked you if you wanted to make a another thread about that subject, or have it moved to the OT thread. I told you I MIGHT have to move it, you being a new member I wanted to let you know. After our discussion it was moved. If a post invites total OT discussion, then it should not be of any concern if it is moved to a new thread ortrhe OT thread, because it is not being deleted, and since it has nothing to do with the original topic, one should not find a need to delve into the matter further . . .

    posted in the "Space Exploration" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Matevz91 View Post
    It is great that we have tackled the topic of military spending. As we all know, there is no such thing as being black or white, the same goes to military spending;It is well known that the foundation of the British empire was its navy, and that in the 18th and 19th century navy was propelling British industrial revolution (from here we can learn about the possible positive role of military spending, because the money that was invested into the royal navy was being returned in the way of jobs, industrial progress, ...)And what about the negative side of military spending?

    Of course, a sure-fire example would be war itself, but I have something else in mind - excessive military spending, of which there are plenty examples in the history. I decided against using US as an example and will instead focus on the Soviet Union;I will not go into details, as Khruschevs military reforms are well documented, as is his military doctrine which was based on the post-war conditions (when nuclear war was a real threat) to abolish entire army altogether (> 10 million enlisted personnel in 1953), leaving only enough nuclear weapons(that is ~200 in early 1960s, USA had at that time more than 19-times as much nuclear weapons) and small professional army to protect strategic centres.

    I will start with Stalin`s "great plan" - he always wanted to be as big as Peter the Great, to have a large navy and to rule the oceans. When Germans captured Nikolayev docks and blockaded Leningrad, this plan was halted and restarted shortly after the war. Also Admiral Kuznetsov had a dream; to "raise the flag on the sea higher as the Americans" and thus he was ready to defend Stalin`s plans for a new navy with any means necessary.It is remarkable that Stalin`s plan (and Kuznetsov`s dream) of building a large, ocean-going navy, was cancelled (in 1954, after Stalin died). The cost of building such a navy was estimated at 100 billion roubles (yet alone operating it, for example when the Black Sea fleet went to sea, the same amount of money was spent as if entire Ukraine was plundered for several months). Khruschev stated that military is there to protect the people, not the other way around (and that the lack of foreign currency is forcing them when buying abroad to give priority to industrial goods rather than consumer goods).

    His military reforms included gradual shrinking of enlisted personnel (from 10 millions in 1953 to 2 millions in 1960 if I am correct), minimisation of expenditures for military research (that is, long range bombers, conventional weapons, ... ) and redirection of money into submarines, missiles and nuclear weapons, thus forcing big research bureaus (like Tupolev`s, Antonov`s, ...) into either civilian production/research or other branches of military research (and thus creating among other things the opportunity for space research). These reforms caused some people to loose their jobs (mainly those who worked in the military, older cadres) and I don`t know how these problems were solved (mass retirements probably), but national budget was finally relieved of the heavy burden...Yeah, perhaps in some other history, but in reality, these reforms were stopped in 1964 when Brežnjev came to power (who wanted to restore "former Stalin`s glory" and to undo what this "corn-pusher", as Khruschev was called afterwards, had done to "national pride").W

    e must remember, that Khruschev`s reforms only make sense in the cold war, when Soviet Union was surrounded by NATO bases (Italy, Turkey, ...), from where nuclear weapons could reach almost any part of the country, and it`s only strategy of defence was to bluff and focus on research as fast and efficient possible, while at the same time try to improve living conditions and general state of the country and its industry. It was purely a defensive doctrine, where nuclear weapons would serve only as a deterrent against foreign aggression (it was estimated that what they already have was enough to keep even USA from attacking them).Well, things ended as they ended (13000 warheads in 1990, when US had "only" 12000 warheads in the same year, a ocean-going navy, "strong army", ... and looted and destroyed whole country, exactly what they feared in 1950s when the doctrine was put in practice).

    With this two examples I wanted to say that no matter what we decide (that military spending is bad/good), reality is never black and white, and most importantly, every solution we come with can work as planed only in certain conditions (for example, Khruschev`s doctrine has no use today (at least not in its original form)).

    And yes, I wrote these things from my head and certain facts may be wrong (although not too off), history books cover these areas much better than my memory, so resort to them instead of relying on what I wrote
    I created the OT thread due to an abundance of OT popping up and, instead of deleting the posts, I found it much more popular to move them

    As I told you in PM, just enjoy the forum. . .
    Last edited by Orion; 22nd June 2012 at 21:32.
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  8. #848
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    As soon as we get more promo photos from the new album someone please has to do a new banner for the forum... especially something brighter...
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  9. #849
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    Agreed fully! That was already in the planning
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  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny_HRO87 View Post
    As soon as we get more promo photos from the new album someone please has to do a new banner for the forum... especially something brighter...
    Apart from the new banner, I think it would be a great idea if we implement "like" buttons... I see tons of stuff Ronney, Robert and others post and I don't think that commenting is the best way to express your gratitude (if you have nothing special to say, of course).

    Yet again, I am sure you already decided on this one long time ago and thus my remark will go to /dev/null
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  11. #851
    Alizée Fan Matevz91's Avatar
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    Have you ever thought about installing ssl? Everytime I log into AF from an unsecure network (or worse,wifi like eduroam) I fear that someone has Wireshark open and is sniffing network traffic, which is not all that uncommon as one might think (I myself open wireshark from time to time to see what is going on on the network). Having my password encrypted before sent would've enable me to sleep easier.




    ===========================================MOD EDIT============================================

    New thread:

    Forum Suggestions and Issues 2013

    Last edited by Orion; 1st March 2013 at 08:32.
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