Love for her and the meaning of life.

[loveherfromusa]

After reading many posts on this forum, I wonder if there are some who have lost perspective on reality. My love for her does not control my ability to live. I know that most of my feelings for her will remain in my fantasies. I love those fantasies. Keep your fantasies and your real life in perspective. I wish I could be with her, but I know that will not happen. I still enjoy the thought.

She will remain my goddess. I'm sorry to say that this is just a dream.

[Joseph]

That is not my intent at all honestly loverherfromtheusa. I believe that to be giving up. I know I'll meet her, I mean it is inevitable. You can't believe that something won't happen, or it won't.

http://www.alizee-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7548


Now hit those French books because your going over there to make your dreams come true!!

*snap snap*

[DavidAlizée]

i kind of agree with you both. I some day soon am going to meet her.. i have to. But, i don't lose grip with reality. Always belive in your dreams, cos withought hopes and dreams... what else is there? 8)

[AlizéeInMYHeart]

I now know that I will probably not meet her (maybe just see her ata concert), and that my dreams will only remain dreams, and I'm fine with it now.......But there was a time where I really lost my touch to reality, and well, it's not nice once ya are that far

[Petsku1]

i need to say something here...
cos i thought this same thing today..(once again)

so i thought this love i feel for Lili...
how can it be true that i love girl that i
can never have and could there ever be
anything that i could do about it....

yes i'm never gonna stop dreaming...either...

and yea i'm gonna be in many of her concerts
sure about that... then someday maybe get my chance to
meet her... and say something what i feel for her

said this many times....but i needed to say it here again

[Manu]

Yeah I have also said somewhere in another post that I would love going to a concert or even meeting her and telling her how much I admire her (I'm afraid that maybe she'd feel weird or something if I talked about anything else), but I keep my feet on the ground, so that's why my biggest hopes and highest goals are focused on those kind of things.

I think jon would write something here :D

[jon]

I think jon would write something here

Now that's just funny! I don't go online all day and when I happen to, that happens to be the last message I read before I respond! :laughbounce: Gee I hope I'm not that predictable. Oh well...

I think... well... I think most of you know what I'm going to say... so... I can just skip a step and let you respond. :mrgreen:

But really, there are fantasies and there are goals. If it's realistic that you'll see her than there isn't much wrong with that, but if you think she is going to talk to you etc., then I'd stop now. Don't keep dreaming, it might trick you and consume you, then destroy you.

[Piece Of Paradise]

At the end of the day reality always takes over. It's just a matter of time.

[haloraven]

You just cant let it go can you....what is it you refuse to understand about other peoples feelings........can you not just deal with the fact that some people have the ability to say what they feel.

Im not afraid to say what I feel...ya know if I or anyone else can put what they feel from everyday life and describe what they feel in emotion in to words then all the better for them. The fact of the matter is life is not a dream NOR is it impossible to persue a dream and succeed. You now all know how i feel about her, and frankly im comfortable enough with what I feel to say it. Maybe your not...and thats fine....no one expects you too.

I think you need to put your own life in perspective first and find out what YOU want from it...and become comfortable with your own self....for the rest of us....if we so do choose to live our lifes in a "FANTASY"as you call it....then let us. Its not your place

[jon]

Now your discouraging me from giving my opinion? That's not the Haloraven I know.

[haloraven]

No no please go ahead.....by all means go right ahead....hes just cant drop it from my JUST A STATEMENT POST....in the general forum.......I honestly dont think im gonna post for a while.......not untill my meds are gone.......they have been effecting me really oddly....but never the less...i love when people have an opinion.....

[DavidAlizée]

to be fair Haloraven.. this topic was made yesterday, just after your topic.

LoverHerFromUsa.. is not having a go at you. Its his opinion in general towards this subject. Its not personaly related towards you.

[loveherfromusa]

My fantasy is to be with her. My goal is to see her in concert as many times as I can. Thanks to those who helped me separate the two.

To pieceofparadise: Reality sucks too much of the time. Just my opinion.

[Piece Of Paradise]

To loveherfromusa: Yeah, but you can't run away from it.

[Joseph]

To pieceofparadise:

But you can always confront it and tell it to go away.

[jon]

Like the time I jumped off my roof: I told reality to go away and let me fly like I wanted. Reality said no... :evil:

[toccata]

i think that the ways of life are so strange that no one is able to tell what's going to happen in the future... almost everything is possible. You just can't simply know your next 5 min. So keep dreaming. :mrgreen:

[Joseph]

Yep yep, Toccata, yep yep.

[Ceaser]

Well someday whe are gona meet a girl who will be more important to you then Alizee.I dont mean you are not gona like Alizee anymore but this girl will be n1 in your live.And all this meaeting Alizee will be over.And thats reality.

[Manu]

I think dreams are necessary, because together with the people you love (family, friends...), they sometimes give you reasons to not give in in tricky situations and also, I don't think they are that different from goals... maybe I have another concept about what a dream is, but for example, one of my dreams would be to go to a concert of her, just like I said before, and I'm sure that this is not gonna destroy my life or anything. Of course, if anybody calls dream to a fantasy like going out with her or similar, then I believe that's another thing. Instead of "dreams", I would call it "to not face facts".

[toccata]

the only fact is that every human being can get as far as he wants to... and now i really think that everything is completely possible... as long as it is still in this life. everything but death...

you have to work to get what you want.

and.... the only real thing is what you have in this very moment.. nothing more than that. that's reality.

[toccata]

death: the only thing you can´t fix

[loveherfromusa]

My love for my wife and my love for Alizée can't be explained on the same planet let alone in the same language.

Sometimes I think we must live with contradictions rather than try to reconcile them.

[haloraven]

that is very true Loveherfromusa, we all must live with them and deal with them in our own ways...ive seen many people belive something soo much that they live every second of their life to somehow beable to achieve that dream or goal...I commend thoes kind of people, thats true dedication to what they believe. AND that is true...thats no way to live your life...but it seems atleast to me that if you do have a dream one should still attempt to reach it, I mean even giving it a blind shot, just once. IF at all you will learn from that experience.

[jon]

but for example, one of my dreams would be to go to a concert of her, just like I said before, and I'm sure that this is not gonna destroy my life or anything.


Haha, I knew we would eventually agree on something.

There is little harmful about an attainable goal.

almost everything is possible. You just can't simply know your next 5 min. So keep dreaming.

It's true that a person can't know for sure what will happen in the next 5 min, but there is a such thing as probability. And some things are just really not probable.

[haloraven]

thats true jon...we cant ever know whats going to happen 5 minutes from now...but if you live your every second as if it were your last....and have the feeling that you have nothing to truly loose, you can honestly achieve any task...especially when it involves being selfless or heroic.

[jon]

How do those first three words reconcile with the rest of what you wrote? :blink:
I pretty much said that you can know almost for sure what will happen in the next five min and that not everything is possible. So... then it should read "that's not true jon". Or am I misunderstanding?

[haloraven]

It's true that a person can't know for sure what will happen in the next 5 min


i was agreeing with you jon....i took this quote here as YOU CANNOT KNOW.....maybe we both are missunderstanding.. :wink: :D

[jon]

oh... heh heh... there's the mistake... I should have wrote it like this:

"It's true that a person can't know for sure what will happen in the next five min, but there is a such thing as probability. And some things are just really not probable, and a person shouldn't misjudge their probability."

My mistake, sorry... :lol:

Here's an example of what I meant: It is possible that my life is being videotaped and broadcast out to the world like the Truman Show, but I don't live my life that way because it is so highly unprobable. Similarly it is possible that I might meet Alizée :flowers: , but I don't liv my life like I might meet her since it is so unlikely.

Does that clear up my opinion? :P

[haloraven]

Yup it does, makes more sence to me.

[Joseph]

I thought about this, if I ever found a girl with purely black hair and pale skin and a higher intellegence, while still being beautiful as ever... One that knows the deepest parts of life, and doesn't put herself in a niche and understands how the world works, and can agree with me... I wonder when, and mostly an If I'll find someone like me. But I merely ask for qualities like this in a girl because I probably won't find a girl like this, and thankfully so... I wouldn't mind living alone. More on the point- some of you are putting these touchy subjects in painful sight, using blunt words and the like. Manu- you say you refer to those dreams as "not facing facts"? That is an awfully pessimistic view, if I ever saw one. It might be from my age but I don't think there is not a possiblity for anything- I mean, if you do your homework, you'll eventually get where you want to go. What you also need to think about- are you just "getting a girl" to soften the impact Alizée has made on you? That wouldn't be fair to your mate, and in the end you'll either forget about Alizée or dump your wife. Nope, ain't gonna happen. Currently I'm working on a piece called, "The Life and Times of Joseph Roth" in which I actually do make it, and it's my journey leading up to that meeting in France... I find it to broaden my mind, my views on the possibility of the "real world." and what I can and can achieve. (not a typo) Like I've stated before, that's where I seperate from that kind of fan... I'm not going to "wake up" and I don't plan to either. It's not "growing up" to me to do other things in life such as marriage, it's just that- other things. I choose my path; I'll tell you how it goes. Now good night all of you, I haven't slept in 17 hours so I'm off to bed. And when I wake up from a glorious dream I'll be sure to finalize it with a content sigh rather than crushing it with a wake up call.

[Ayan]

You are willing to make such statements about your future life ? You are 15, your life hasnt even really begun, and already you are saying, that you are willing to be without a girl for the rest of your life ? Thats a hell of a brave statement, dont you think.
But well, good luck with this whole thing.

[DavidAlizée]

When i was 15 i know what i wanted in life.. and i have done well so far imo. So 15 is old enough id say to make your mind up what you want from life. But it could take a nice girl to come along and sweep you off your feet Joseph. As long as she doesnt get in the way of your desire for Alizée of course lol

[Manu]

I thought about this, if I ever found a girl with purely black hair and pale skin and a higher intellegence, while still being beautiful as ever... One that knows the deepest parts of life, and doesn't put herself in a niche and understands how the world works, and can agree with me... I wonder when, and mostly an If I'll find someone like me. But I merely ask for qualities like this in a girl because I probably won't find a girl like this, and thankfully so... I wouldn't mind living alone. More on the point- some of you are putting these touchy subjects in painful sight, using blunt words and the like. Manu- you say you refer to those dreams as "not facing facts"? That is an awfully pessimistic view, if I ever saw one. It might be from my age but I don't think there is not a possiblity for anything- I mean, if you do your homework, you'll eventually get where you want to go. What you also need to think about- are you just "getting a girl" to soften the impact Alizée has made on you? That wouldn't be fair to your mate, and in the end you'll either forget about Alizée or dump your wife. Nope, ain't gonna happen. Currently I'm working on a piece called, "The Life and Times of Joseph Roth" in which I actually do make it, and it's my journey leading up to that meeting in France... I find it to broaden my mind, my views on the possibility of the "real world." and what I can and can achieve. (not a typo) Like I've stated before, that's where I seperate from that kind of fan... I'm not going to "wake up" and I don't plan to either. It's not "growing up" to me to do other things in life such as marriage, it's just that- other things. I choose my path; I'll tell you how it goes. Now good night all of you, I haven't slept in 17 hours so I'm off to bed. And when I wake up from a glorious dream I'll be sure to finalize it with a content sigh rather than crushing it with a wake up call.

I don't think it is pessimistic, Joseph. You say everything can be possible... well, perhaps. But there are things which doesn't depend on me. I try to control only a part of my life, but there is another one which I leave to chance, because I want to or because I cannot control it. What I mean is, I don't live to find my perfect girl, I prefer to live and when it has to happen, then go ahead. But I'm not thinking in "my girl has to be like this, let's look for her". But I believe this chance factor is very important. For example, your dream is to go one day to France, because Alizée is from there. But if Corsica belonged to Italy, you'd want to go to Italy (I know, stupid example XD)
Anyway, I can see that there is a very thin line between reality and dreams as you understand them. "Reality" is a too ambiguous word, I guess.
So, I'm not sure if I've changed the subject, but anyways, I don't think it has to be pessimistic when I say that one just can't get some things, and I think the better choice would be to face it. If one doesn't face it, then that would be like delaying the moment when you realize.
There's a motto that says: "You have to have got Great aspirations, Moderate expectancies and Small needs". Maybe that sums it all up (if I have translated if well heh)

[Manu]

Reading myself, hell I do sound kinda pessimistic when say "one just can't get some things, and I think the better choice would be to face it".
But really, I do understand that you gotta go get what you want, but it's just there are some impossible things, just like when I refer to Alizée and going out with her, y'know. Hmm... 3.40 am, too late to think. Night.

[jon]

^Whether it's pessimistic or not, it does not take away from the truth of the matter.

Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with planning life at a young age. I agree that at 15, this plan may change the next day or even sooner, but to organize your own future is an important skill. And if a person thinks he's too young to think about planning his future, it is probable that he'll think he's ready long after he should have started planning. It's human nature to procrastinate about these things and tell yourself that you're not ready.

[Jaycubed]

Hmm i could really upset the applecart here and ignite a furious fire of debate and potential arguement here, i dunno if i wanna do that though. But all i know is that i hadn't been on the forum for a little while and then i get back and so many posts and threads that i wanna talk about.

The way i feel about Alizée is so huge, she always in my thoughts, hearing her voice, seeing her face, seeing her name. Makes me feel like nothing else in this world can do. So what is she to me? before her there was something i felt was missing but i never knew how to find it or what it was. Now i don't feel it anymore, and Alizée is the reason, it's the only thing that's changed in my life to make me feel so different. I know it's Alizée and i thank her for it eternally, i can never thank her enough. I have dreams of being in her life, of being with her and such of course, and as improbable as these dreams are, it's not fantasy in a respect as it's not something that's impossible.

I'm not crazy, i don't have this belief that me and her will be together or anything, i am not decieving myself by saying i am waiting here for Lili to come into my life, cos it's inevitable, cos i know it's totally not inevitable. i am not thinking me and her are destined to be together, but i'll hold onto the dreams of meeting her, and maybe even being a part of her life somehow, that's not fantasy, cos it can happen. And i'd be willing to devote what i do in my life to maybe be part of her life one day. i don't think if i work to be a part of her life that it's gonna happen, i know it's really improbable and such, i'm not fooling myself, but she is amazingly important to me, life is so much better with her in it. She has my heart, i love her very much.

And so really is the question really about us as individuals and how we feel and our relation to reality concerning Alizée, or is it about Alizée, cos for me it's about her, you all know the equation, Lili happy = Me happy...well think about it cos that's how it is for me, she's more important to me than i am to myself, that makes me very sure of how i am to act in life, if i do end up in her life, then i will do everything to make her happy and to keep her safe. At the moment i cannot do that as i am not in her life, so i put myself first when concerning events. In my opinion i am so sure of this in my mind, i have trouble making it a cohesive reasoning but i know it inside me. So make what you will of this, am i in danger? am i a dreamer? or am i someone with a sound grasp on my situation and someone who knows what he's doing? i'll let you lot decide and discuss that if you have the desire to...

But i know that Alizée is the most important to me, i know how i feel and it's something so powerful i will not even begin to try and describe it. She makes life better, and she makes me feel like i really am alive, being in love with her. I'd do anything for her and the cool thing is that i've felt this for long enough now to be so sure of everything in my mind, and that means that what others say about this aren't gonna hurt me, or change me, so go ahead everyone, say what you want....I didn't write a post this long just for people to go 'hmmm yep ok' :P

Believe me i could say so much more, but i tried to keep this to a length that wasn't too huge, i didn't want you guys falling asleep before you finished. Now you know how i feel, for those that didn't know already

Side note - i feel i write better when i don't be meticulous and double check my posts so i apologise for any crappy structure or anything :wink:

[Faze]

I agree sean.. as some of you may know, sean has alot of experience with this, and his feelings.. and i agree with him about it.. I dont sit around and dream that i will be with Lili, but i know what i feel and thats no dream.. its real, and so is meeting Lili or perhaps being in her life one day.. anything is possible..

[junior_151]

I wouldnt have fallen asleep Sean, I actually like reading everyones opinions. So common people hit me with the best ya got. :cheesy:

Yay, 500th post finally. :D

[haloraven]

Im having alot of trouble typing and coming up with actual thoughts, being im so druged up right now...but Sean hearing you say that means so much to me, for you actually were able to put in to words the kind of thing we feel, that I the other night was uncapable of doing.

As you said and so will I, I love her with all my heart, shes done so much for me, regardless if she knows or not. She has filled that place deep inside that I for the longest time could not fill, her beauty and luster has changed my self destructive life and honestly she is that one thing that takes the edge off. That feeling I get when i get home from school or work and see her picture on my desk top....then I hear this angels song, sweetly kissing my wounds and running of the stresses that haunt my every waking hour. And THAT is why shes so important to me. I dont sit around a create fanasies for my self, about what could be, but rather I KNOW I will achieve what I want, and some how some way I will be apart of her life, though I cannot say with 100% accuracy what that might be...but I've always known shes been a gift from god, one that he so lovingly added to my life.
All profound action verbs cannot support how i truly feel,so all is lost in the end.all serene sensations, and every emotion is yet an anxiety that mearly washes over us. But truly for people like us....I must say, Emotions are a temple, which I think are lost among the swarms of agony that both life and society have depressed upon us all.................how did i once describe it, this is really making me think hard....life is nothing but an illusion, its all a dream if you truly think about it, you lie to yourself, and others lie to you, thus creating a world to help you deal with these illusions of need based upon our unnatural needs for material and emotional objects...yeah....an epic subtitles with heaves of depression gnawing at our.....over bearing eagerness to love and to expand our mind.
Ok well i feel really sick now......so imma go to bed. I dunno if you guys follow me or not...but thats how i feel.

[Joseph]

WELL said, Sean and Patrick. (i know Jaycubed's name now^^) In my mind it all boils down to what others think is BEST for you, what others SEE of you, what you SEE of yourself and what YOU make of the things that happen to happen. There were some quotes written about WWII that can possibly apply in this situation as well;

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

In my opinion I believe this to be applicable because once you find what you want to do in life, as IMO we don't have a "calling" as we make our destiny... there is not a template set before us. Anyway, once you find what you wish to do, brace yourself and follow through and don't stop for no one. If that may be helping some tribe in Africa with an epidemic then so be it; what you wish to do is not better than anyone elses' wishes.

Heck, George S. Patton once had a famous quote, "It is better to die for something than to live for nothing"

Which is undeniably true- some may tell you that are "wasting your life" on some meaningless girl who can dance and sing, well I say good luck to them because they will always be empty in my opinon, in spirit and body. Believe me, I know many people with this life pattern, looking to facts and figures for answers...

Willaim Shakespere once said for Juleus Ceaser "Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant die but once."

This is mostly fitting for that soldier that is struck by fear so hardly that he can't lift his head over the trench to save a crying buddy... it's his job after all, he is a medic. But he is too afraid, he will be shot... and in the end he gets shot in the head by a sniper, (taken from a scene from COD) but what is the sin in that? We cannot really blame anyone in this circumstance. But set in the scene of Life, going on the last quote, if you spend your life worrying, don't take the chance and set yourself to something, your already dead inside. (which fits into all the above quotes in some way)

"There are only two forces in the world, the sword and the spirit. In the long
run the sword will always be conquered by the spirit."
- Napoleon Bonaparte

Once again, this applies well IMO. You have the spirit to do what you wish; apply yourself to whatever you want out of Life. That sword that puts you down and tells you of a "reality" that you choose "not to face" will never pierce your chest if you know yourself that reality is so hmm (heheh) what's that word? It can be shapen in so many forms, there is no one "reality." For instance, I once looked across my gated yard and saw two men, one Black , one White. What had I been thinking of at the time? How pissed off I was at my father waiting till I had stayed up for two days and THEN telling me to work in the back... that was MY reality. But then the men walked by my yard... the black man stared at me... kind of with a look of, "yes?" as he helped the white man walk, as he had a prostethic leg, they seemed to support eachother because one man was old and the other disabled. I knew they prolly lived under IH-35, and when I saw them walk by I realized that what they saw in Life was just getting the next meal; and they put their mind and body into walking along, meeting other homeless people to band with... that was what they saw out of life, the rich man's life a mystery to them. Now, you could tell them to "face reality" and tell them to go work at the Goodwill... But what have they chosen from life? What have you? You have your home, your wife and kids. Anything less than that is probably below you in terms of finacial/status so you probably are just gloating. In the end it's how we lived our lives, not how we avoided what we willed and followed the rest.

"Above all things, never be afraid. The enemy who forces you to retreat is
himself afraid of you at that very moment."
- Andre Maurois

Again, you can see yourself what this might mean to you. I would just be repeating myself. :)

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
- Emiliano Zapata

Going along with the other quote, live the way you want, not the way others see "correct" or "right"

From all this I can't really add anything else...

If you believe that we all should just conform and go through life always stopping yourself from anything daring because you might lose something, how is that a way to live? Then again, that is your path you have chosen, and to all that have chosen theirs, I say to you, good luck and never let go of that knot.





:showoff:

[DavidAlizée]

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"

Id rather live on my knees :P

[Joseph]

what do you mean? I wouldn't be afraid to fight... would you live under chains?
Or do you see another way to see it?

[Manu]

Well first of all, I'd like to say that I've never meant to make anybody's opinion change here, I consider I'm only sharing my points of view, and this is as respectable as any other opinions.
I think I've talked to Sean for several times about this kind of issues, and I kinda know what he feels and maybe so does he towards me. So there isn't anything new in his post for me.
I actually haven't very much liked Joseph's post, cos I think he got a wrong impression about me, since I have read some quotes, like "It is better to die for something than to live for nothing", etc. that may insinuate I'm a loser or something. First off, I believe all those quotes have nothing to do with this subject, in my opinion, and secondly, Joseph, I told you I understand that point about trying to get what you want in life.
So once again, I think all that stuff saying "everything can be possible" is really beautiful, but I prefer not to get my hopes up, cos the disappointment can be even bigger. This doesn't mean, though, that I give in, am always a quitter or have a truly pessimistic point of view in my life. I always fight for what I want and have learned to overcome in tricky situations until now. It does not mean that I can't try to be a little realistic in some situations. We have got limitations and I want to see them. Can you blame me...? :wink: :P

[Joseph]

So once again, I think all that stuff saying "everything can be possible" is really beautiful, but I prefer not to get my hopes up, cos the disappointment can be even bigger. This doesn't mean, though, that I give in, am always a quitter or have a truly pessimistic point of view in my life. I always fight for what I want and have learned to overcome in tricky situations until now. It does not mean that I can't try to be a little realistic in some situations. We have got limitations and I want to see them. Can you blame me...? :wink: :P

No, i can see your point... you "know" you have limitations though? What limitations are they? I'm sure they could be shattered with enough time and effort. :cheesy:

[Manu]

Hey at least I'll try, but I can't promise anything :D

[jon]

am i in danger? am i a dreamer? or am i someone with a sound grasp on my situation and someone who knows what he's doing?

I don't understand. Those are not mutually exclusive. According to me, you are all three. Now neither of those things are bad and I don't mean to offend you by saying all three apply to you.

In other words, I have come across few adjectives that intrinsically connote "bad". Danger is your choice and Joseph seems to think that it is worth it. I disagree but it is still your choice. A dreamer is also something that you could say is worth it to which I would disagree, but it is still your choice. The third is obviously not an insult.

Now the thing I don't understand about your position is why would someone who has thought it out and who sees the dangers want to put himself in danger like that? Living half in reality and half in fantasy is a really dangerous thing. So you'll tell me "fantasy" is the wrong word and that it is a goal. And I'll understand where you are coming from if you tell me that you see a way to reach the goal (that was partly directed towards Pat :wink: ). But to reach a conclusion like that is hard. I'll agree with you if you can give a good explanation but it seems to me now that a person who has reached that conclusion did an insufficient evaluation of the dilema.

life is nothing but an illusion, its all a dream if you truly think about it, you lie to yourself, and others lie to you, thus creating a world to help you deal with these illusions of need based upon our unnatural needs for material and emotional objects...yeah....an epic subtitles with heaves of depression gnawing at our.....over bearing eagerness to love and to expand our mind.

Pat, I don't really see how you came to this conclusion. Could you please elaborate? :wink:

Which is undeniably true- some may tell you that are "wasting your life" on some meaningless girl who can dance and sing, well I say good luck to them because they will always be empty in my opinon, in spirit and body.

Joseph, I don't understand your point. Is it that as long as people are not associating their life with Alizée, then it's considered empty? That can't be because I could find a German soldier who would tell you that you are "'wastng your life' on some meaningless girl who can dance and sing" and you wouldn't say their lives are meaningless. So... what exactly are you saying then?

Also, I don't understand how your example shows that their is a subjective reality. Are you talking about perspective? Because, I don't think that there is more than 1 reality. So could you clear that up for me? :P

Oops, one more point that I had to edit in :lol: . Joseph, I don't see what about living your life in certain ways defines you as "wasting your life" or "living on your knees" and why living your life in other ways you classify as "living for a cause" and such. Really everyone is living for some cause no matter how futile it is. What about living dedicating your life to Alizée and your other interests makes you living for a cause?

Great discussion guys! :P

[haloraven]

life is nothing but an illusion, its all a dream if you truly think about it, you lie to yourself, and others lie to you, thus creating a world to help you deal with these illusions of need based upon our unnatural needs for material and emotional objects...yeah....an epic subtitles with heaves of depression gnawing at our.....over bearing eagerness to love and to expand our mind.

Well Jon, you see I studyed a few different religions, one being Bhuddist, you see it was believed that the physical world around you is nothing more than a dream or illusion, created out of lies we tell our selves...lies others tell us etc etc.....lies that help our weak minds deal with the natural world, helps us explain WHY?? things happen they way they do......gives us comfort. And to be able to finally reach Nervana...having that ability to release your self from that which holds you down, and keeping you from attaining greatness...you must unlearn all of what you have learned...all the lies you have accepted, and all the things you think you know about life and the world around you.....you must open up and hear what nature, love, life is telling you....and only untill you can truly free your mind, will you be able to finally reach that of what you have for soo long seaked.....

I hope that sheds a bit of light on the situation. if not i can attempt another explination....granted this is not exactly how Bhuddist think...but rather it is the way it was explained to me.....and i actually like it, ive tryed to apply that way of thinking to my everyday life.....makes things so much simpler...and at leats for me....makes me happier.

[jon]

Yeah, I understand what you are sayiing but I still don't see a reason why I should be compelled to beleive that everything is a lie and that true reality (if I understand right) is just nature itself. The way people work is to choose the simpler solution. In this case that would be that everything they perceive is in fact real. Unless I see a reason why everything is fake except nature then I still don't see your message.

Another thing: nature. According to your thing if everything is fake, then how does that exclude nature and if nature is excluded then everything is not fake. So... which is it?

Also if everything is to be unlearned, then wouldn't nature be simple? But if things are really so simple that you need to unlearn everything in order to understand, why does the mind need to make up these lies to help it cope with the real world? Then the lies would be complex which isn't how people work (going from simple explanations to complex ones). So Is nature simple or does unlearning everything really make your mind more complex?

Oh, another thing: how do I distinguish between the lies and the reality? Couldn't the statement "life is an illusion" also be a lie to help us cope with the real world? That seems more probable simce it's simpler than the system of figuring out partculars with logic. (Wait, did I contradict myself :shock: ...um...no, this question only stands if the answer to the last question was to the effect of "nature really is simpler. Whew... )

Heh heh, sorry! I know it's a lot of questions but they just came to my mind as I was writing the first one :lol: Take your time answering, Pat. I don't want you stressing yourself if you feel sick. It can wait if you need to rest. I'm in no hurry :mrgreen:

[Joseph]

Jon- I am talking about the people who go out and say trash to you for liking her. Not, everyone else in the world.

Pat- I see how that would... I once studied Islam:) the teachings are rather nice looking and aren't what you see on Iraqi TV either:/

Jon- The quote "living on your knees" was soemthing someone else said, and only applies in your "fight" to love what you will . It is not what people who don't nessecarilyl love Alizee do. Again, we all choose what we do in this life. What you make of what he or she chose, is never correct becaues you'll never know their perspective/reality. Oh and yes, there's only one reality:) That's persective ^^)

[haloraven]

HEHE its cool....ok Jon you saw the Matrix yes..I hope....thats kind of the same thing...we are fed all kinds of things....not really "LIES". We just accept them and move on....not really thinking if we truly SHOULD..

We surround ourselves with material things, you know thoes things we hold dear or thing are valuable, but truly what we end up doing in life, regardless if we mean to, is do this..or buy that...or have this...to some how make life a bit easier....and the more we do that...the more we become burried by always making ourselves feel better, or look better etc etc. We attempt to blind our selves from the truth, as an escape tactic so we dont have to deal with life around us....

And to answer why Nature is real....again back to the Bhuddist belief, nature was made pure, so if we can somehow get back to nature...in ourselves we become one step closer to being pure ourselves.

ok its really late now....i must head off to bed. :wink: :lol:

[jon]

Okay, I gotcha. You're saying that these "lies" you reffered to is the philosophy that "if it feels good it must be good" and the "love pleasure hate pain" stuff. Okay, that makes sense. I was just not used to those terms.

I don't agree with the solution to the problem though. How is nature separate from human nature ("pleasure/pain" philosophy)? Both are a system of how things work. Why is one pure and one lies?

My solution to the problem lies in the human intellect and using you're brain to adopt a new philosphy that is in line with reality. So... is the intellect pure? Clearly the human nature is considered inpure but what about the other component of the human being?

[Joseph]

Patrick, how do you suppose we stop the supposed never ending cycle of buying things to feel better?

Jon, IMO the only philosophy you can adopt is the one you try yourself, apply it to the real world. If you truly are "at peace" with yourself, then it works... ^^)

[haloraven]

well more or less....nature was made pure, it needs nothing but the its self to survive...it needs not the material things...you dont see a tree getting its leaves trimmed so it can look better to the other trees around it....you dont see a rock wanting to look more beautiful than all the other rocks around it.....but see we as humans strive to be better than the person next to us....if we feel bad about our selves, the way we look, the way we act....and yet we cant change that...so we mearly cover it up...with clothes...jewelry expensive "STUFF" that we really dont need....all we need in life is food shelter oxygen and love.....but we complicate our lives by wanting more...needing this and wanting that. And the more you can pull away from that kind of thinking and look to the beauty of life and the world around you..I feel its a bit more worth the effort.

[Manu]

I think the subject of this thread is little more general heh.
I wouldn't say illusion or lie, I would say the way we live our lives is like pretending, like playing a role in the scenario called life. Each person would see "reality" in a different way, and would try to deal with it, depending on how it is seen, in a different way too. And while we deal with those different points of view in the different situations, we are thinking in terms of pain/pleasure, or if you prefer, we make cost/profit analysis.
What we do is to try to make the absolute reality more simple, so then we'll be able to live our lives. Since the very moment we get up in the morning, life has a path for us to walk in: go to school, have lunch, etc. and we sometimes don't even wonder why we do anything. We dream with paths we would like to walk, and we can get happy thinking in our future happiness. In general, one thinks the own happiness in the future will be bigger than the happiness one gets in the end, as time goes by.

[Backinblack]

"La vie n'est qu'une interminable répétition d'une représentation qui n'aura jamais lieu..." (Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain)

Life is nothing but an endless rehearsal for a production that will never take place...

[haloraven]

Point well taken Backinblack, all my whole point is here, is to attempt a simpler life....stop and smell the roses...enjoy the moments you have. Without being overly trapped by life, thus freeing you in a sence, you then have the ability to expand your mind...and enjoy all thoes serene sensations we take forgranted.

[toccata]

what in the name of god is reality!!? what you are living right now.... and this is so ephemeral... did alizée ever imagined to meet Madonna when she was a little girl?

[jon]

I don't see what point you're making toccata.

Pat, I don't understand why intellect is not also pure. It achieves the same goal as you refer to: to stop one's emotions from making his life harder and less practical. I think we both agree that the emotions are the problem. Not that they are bad but that they get in the way by making us think we need stuff like jewelry and beauty when we don't. They have a use but they are overused and that is human nature.

So your solution is to emerse yourself in nature and mine is to take the middle path by working out you're problems with your mind. Your solution could lead to the emotions once again taking over and thinking nature is more important than it is. In fact, probably whoever thought of your solution meant for a person to use his mind when doing it to prevent himself from going to the extreme, which is the main advantage of using your intellect. I just don't see why they choose such a solution that endangers the person of going back to the life he wanted to get away from.

[haloraven]

No no....its not my solution really....its just something to think about.

We are a materialistic society, thats what runs our world...selling, trading..and re-selling. im not saying its bad...by all means if that makes the world go around. But by having this over bearing urge to buy buy buy, complicates simple lives.

[jon]

Yeah, I understand that. I mean the percent of people who actually rid themselves of this desire for more is so small that they probably have had less influence in the world than they should.

And I know it's not your solution, but I didn't want to ahve to write out "the solution of the Budhdist religion" everytime :mrgreen: .

[Joseph]

That's interesting... lots of religons out there have their own perspective on life and you don't even have join their faith, just study up on them.

[jon]

That's what religions are: a perspective on life. In my opinion, faith should have no part in religion.

[DavidAlizée]

That's what religions are: a perspective on life. In my opinion, faith should have no part in religion.

Yes, i agree with you 100% !

Religion is mans effort to get and understand God. Nothing to do with Faith.

[Joseph]

So are you saying that to have belief in God would be your belief in Life's meaning, and not an answer to all your problems? That is the most intellegent thing I've heard in awhile:)


*contemplates*

[DavidAlizée]

well, i belive.. the meaning of life is to put faith and trust in Gods plan, and Gods plan was in a person, and that person is Jesus Christ.

[BLADEEK]

Ohh....I have my hope and my dreams about her...I hope that I'll meet her in the future/....actually i'm sure in that...I love her so much that sometimes when i watch to her vids i start crying ....that she''s no near me...and i can't touch her or smth like that...but i still have my hopes and will have them 4ever until i'll be definately sure that they won't come true....Every time when i look at her i realize how happy is that man who is near her right in the moent... :roll: ...I think i'll meet her and try to interest her somehow...of course i have almost no chances...but i think one attempt won't make anything.... :P I love her so much that I'll make everything possible from my side to get to her !!!!
Alizée I ADORE you

[DavidAlizée]

yes, well said BLADEEK...

[toccata]

bladeek: ok... like i said before and no one understood... why if alizée was able to meet Madonna or Mylene, you're not able to meet Alizée?... i hope someone gets my point here. It's about dreams.

[Manu]

Religions are not a perspective on life. Religions' goal is to make your life a perspective. And that is not good. I advise to study Sociology, Philosophy or Economics instead of any kind of religion. They only have their place in History cos they've made people fight for good. And that is a contradiction itself.

[BLADEEK]

yes, well said BLADEEK...
Thank you brother....all what i've said reflect my reality .....like i live now....and like i feel )))
bladeek: ok... like i said before and no one understood... why if alizée was able to meet Madonna or Mylene, you're not able to meet Alizée?... i hope someone gets my point here. It's about dreams.
I got...)))...but it's little diffrent type of thing....)))....she met them becoz she's famous....and i'm not that much...(((...

[toccata]

well... alizée wasn´t famous all of her life.... so maybe you're gonna be famous for something you don´t even know right now

[BLADEEK]

well... alizée wasn´t famous all of her life.... so maybe you're gonna be famous for something you don´t even know right now
Completely possible... :lol: :P but she met MF and Madonna after she became famous!

[monkeygod]

my definition of the Meaning of Life = to Live happy and die happy.

And if happiness to you is Alizee, well then so be it, but just realize that she wont be around forever, and there will always be other things that make life worth living.

[haloraven]

toccata, ok well for one she LOVES madonnas music and her image, I do believe if i understand correctly that after she started getting into the music business, still at her very young age, she then got to meet Madonna...So in that sence she worked on becoming KNOWN then got the chance....so to your comment it could be assumed that if we become famous and or well known...or some how stand out that we would be able to meet her...but thats just not the case i think....hell when Faze and I go to Corsica next summer for holiday we could run in to her on the street...or hell see her in a pub. But granted doing somthing to draw attention to you or your cause is a good idea.

now if you would like to know what i think about the meaning of life, ill post it ina bit...i gotta get home first.

[jon]

My tweaking of toccata's statement: airplanes can fly, why shouldn't I be able to fly?

Fine, so it's completely in the wrong direction :lol: , but my point is that you're comparing you and Alizée which have nothing to do with eachother. If you were going into the music business then fine, but a person who has no plans of that sort is completely out of place in an example like your's.

Manu, what I mean is that the study of philosophy and the study of religion should be synonymous.

[Joseph]

Sometimes Religon can stop you from philosophizing though..

[jon]

Could you elaborate?

[Joseph]

Well, you could ask yourself the question... such as "What happens when we die" or the like... not a very good example but if you are Christian and such it's already there for you (heaven or hell) and there's no thought required, or the meaning of life. "Love God" is what they'll tell you... and there's no window for thought there either.

[toccata]

jon: airplanes can fly, why shouldn't I be able to fly?

that's completely illogical... at first place you're not an airplane.... you´re comparable to alizée in the level that both of you are persons... and you don´t need to be that famous to meet her. example: you´re a session musician who lives in france and works for universal....

[jon]

I understand that the example was illogical. My point was that it was probable that Alizee would meet Maddona. It is not probable that you or I will meet Alizee. Why? Because the fact that we're both people has nothing to do with it. We are in completely different positions. Probablity dictates that it won't happen. The fact that there is a chance doesn't matter. The chance is so miniscule that it does not exist. It's unclear to me whether you think probablility has anything to do with this.

Joseph, that was what I was saying shouldn't be: religion should be a philosophy and a life system, not a beleif system.

[Ayan]

Probablity dictates that it won't happen. The fact that there is a chance doesn't matter. The chance is so miniscule that it does not exist. The day joseph will meet Alizée is the day you will look so stupid by ever saying that line.

Alizée is not living in a glassbox, people meet Her every day, fans meet Her a lot. So whats the big deal about " whether someone will meet Her or not", if a person wants to meet Her, he or she will surely succeed in that.
Stop with this nonsence theory bllsht, no fan will ever take that seriously in the first place.

[BLADEEK]

I'm sure that I'll meet her..Thx for good brief Ayan...RESPECT!

[haloraven]

Actually well said Ayan, Its awsome that we all KNOW that we will meet her...its all about when and where. I trust in the fact that we all will meet her. We will because we believe we will...and I know anyone here who cares as much as Faze Myslef and a few others will make that happen, ITs a real life goal weve set...and we will meet that goal. FOR that i can be sure.

[toccata]

well.... i'm a musician :mrgreen: ..... maybe i've got a chance

[Napoleon]

i dont think we will have to speak perfect french- she does speak some english..correct?

[Jaycubed]

yeah she does speak some english, she says she isn't very good but then i'm sure she is being modest and that she can speak pretty good english. But then again, i'd rather she spoke in what she is comfortable in :D

[Joseph]

Well said Ayan, really shot everything down in that one-

If you will meet Alizée then you will.

If you doubt it then you won't.

So I say move aside because I need to get to FRANCE BACH:)

[Man from U.N.C.L.E]

Hi everyone, Im not new to the forum but I don't really post alot (a bit an all seeing eye kinda fella). Anyway, just to clear up any misunderstanding about this topic, I do believe that many people in this forum have a good chance of meeting Alizee (they say persistence is one of obsessives most outstanding qualities), not only like I just said that people here are persistent but also because Alizee is famous. The simple fact is, as Alizee is famous, she is in the public eye and is bound to get fans running into her every day. If Alizee on the other hand was not famous, nobody here would be even trying to meet her. The thing that bugs me though is that I get the impression that people here believe they have a significant chance of becoming Alizee's lover, Friend, whatever, and to that end I feel most people here are truly misguiding themselves. What do U expect Alizee to do when U meet her?, what, you think she is just going to hand over her phone number and say "lets Hook Up sometime" - come on, get real. And what exactly do u expect to say to her that will make u part of her life - "Ooh, gee, Im your biggest fan, in fact, im in love with you". The simple fact that u are here today on this forum obsessing over her already limits your chances for a life with her - the past always get in the way of the present and future, just keep that im mind.

So by all means meet her, but dont expect to become her friend/lover - atleast not anytime soon ( she already has Jeremy, remember - just pray she doesnt love him the same way people on this forum claim to love her).

Well thats all I have to say - for now.

[DavidAlizée]

what, you think she is just going to hand over her phone number and say "lets Hook Up sometime

yes!!! :P

na but , i think if people meet her.. she might want the odd person to talk to or be mates. After all, knowbody knows what can happen when 2 people meet for the first time. Even though she is famos... its strange how funny things can happen. Ok, the chances are slim... but id say there is a chance to talk to her over a private meeting.. if it be. I belive its all about meeting her in the right place, at the right time.

i don't think there are totally obsessed, crazy fans here. ( im not in any way saying you said there are) So i think most can meet her, when the time is right. However, the more in love with Alizée you become... the less chance you have of meeting her, or becoming a freind. As you won't be seeing Alizée for the person she is... but for a popstar.. It is a very fine line.

[Mr Bond]

Davidalizee wrote:

I don't think there are totally obsessed, crazy fans here. ( im not in any way saying you said there are) So i think most can meet her, when the time is right. However, the more in love with Alizée you become... the less chance you have of meeting her, or becoming a freind. As you won't be seeing Alizée for the person she is... but for a popstar.. It is a very fine line.

I dont quite understand what you mean by this point? :?: Please clarify.

[DavidAlizée]

i dont think i can explain better, sorry mate ...

[Mr Bond]

That's ok I guess you mean that people could build up unrealistic expectations of her and forget she is a person like the rest of us? Question of reality and preconceptions? I would love to meet her but it would be hard I'm quite shy and I'm not sure how I might react to the excitement. Sure I would be speechless. :D

[Man from U.N.C.L.E]

Hey DavidAlizee (just a side note, I still havent got my Boiler fixed), I just meant that the past will always get in the way of the present and future, theres no escaping it - so the more people 'Love her', the less chance they have of acutally being in her life. I mean, how would you deal with the fact if someone you didnt know came up to you and said they loved you, I think you would either a) Think their weird and run away(or make up an excuse to leave, or (and most likely in Alizee's case as she is famous so probably expects this kind of stuff) b) not take then seriously. Mind you they way some people are on this forum (and I mean no offensive but that statement, although it is bound to cause offense), they moment they start reading poetry to her I think she would probably realise there serious :cheesy:

p.s (If ever that did happen, I would so love to be there for that Kodak moment :cheesy: ).

P.p.s - they way I'm going, I'm gonna get banned from this forum very quickly

[John]

Well I wrote about 4 paragraphs and deleted it. It would have been appropriate but It is better that I deleted it. Ill keep it simple, Uncle is right, many people on these forums fantasize about meeting Alizee as their life goal. That's fine, but when she has a few million fans, don't get your hopes up. There are things we all want, but we need to be realistic about them at times.

[jon]

The day joseph will meet Alizée is the day you will look so stupid by ever saying that line.


Okay. I'm sure Joseph will write all about it on the forum when it happens. Then I'll admit to everyone I was wrong and you'll be happy. Really. No skin off my back if I turn out to be wrong. I've been wrong a lot. That's why I think you're entitled to your opinion, Ayan, which is more than you seem to give me. :roll:

[Axeman]

I think it's a good thing to have smth in your life you can rely on. Be it Alizée or smth else. It doesn't matter, as long as you
don't let reality out of your sight. Alizée can really inspire you and change your way you look at life. But you have to
take it somewhere. Escaping in daydreams about her is fine for a time but it's only half the ride and you can get lost in it.

About meeting her. Of course, if you really force it, maybe you get to see her someday. Probably at a concert.
But for me it's alright to just see her live on stage someday. I don't think my life will dramatically change if I meet her for a few secs
and maybe get an autograph from her. Of course this would be really cool. But i don't think that there is a real chance
of meeting her and get a real conversation with her.

About being in love with her. Many here in this forum have a crush on her(me included), it's pretty obvious.
But I can't say from me that I really love her and would live the rest of my life with her. I mean, what do we
really know of her? Almost nothing I would say. All the Interviews didn't told me much about her real sights and views
on smth. So how could I say I love her? The main reason why so many people got a crush on her is her pure beauty&grace.
OK, you might say, her music is so good, but I don't think there weren't so many people here so crazy about her and
meeting up with her if it only was her music.
Another thing is, why did she got picked out by M.Farmer to sing Moi...Lolita? Because she looked like a Lolita.

As you read all this, don't get me wrong. I really appreciate what she brought into my Life. And I can also say, she
changed it a bit to the good. But I definetly know that I will never be part of her Life and that I have to find my
Luck on my own, she can only make this search sweeter, but she cannot take it away from me.

And at last a bit Offtopic. Someone mentioned "Le Fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain". That movie has
almost the same impact on me that Alizée has. I always see the world with different eyes after watching it.

[Man from U.N.C.L.E]

Nice post Axeman, and I agree with what you said. In some ways I wish I could have the life I think I want, but to me there will always be a price.
Thats why I think I'm scare of my dreams coming true - because if sometimes dreams can come true....then what of our nightmares.

[DavidAlizée]

Nightmares, and fears mean nothing. There are there to help you may attention to what is around you. If you had no fears... who wouldnt be worried about anything.. and then could will be a problem.

Yes, Dreams do come true imo.

[Joseph]

dang it... I wrote something so big on this and it closed... here is a simplified version: (ugh)
To wait for you
If it is so
But understand
That the enemy
She has no voice
And she wouldn't know
Or understand
That time that will unify us

-Enemy- the person tell you what won't happen
-No Voice- If you let it bring you down it will
-Time will...- given enough time you WILL succeed.



Everything...is written
But my life is one of a kind
It's under...the ink that
Comes to life...that I sketch myself.

(Lemail des Ailles- overlooked IMO but as great as JPVA or JEAM anyday)

Essentially You write out your life, your expereinces. No one else does; they merely try to influence you.

I'm sure I could go through Alizée's lyrics (or Mylenes) and find many things that could fit this; but lifes like a can of generic SAMS CHOICE coke. You can open the lid suavely in one crack (not two) and rink it slowly to savor the burn and then gulp twice to burn your throat and then when that stops you can enter a great feeling of AHHHH or you can just drink it. To quote Patrick, "live every day like your going to die" I'm sure there are other things in sight that could be compared to Life , I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could see a similiarity between somethuing like, oh, say, a box of chocoloates :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Man from U.N.C.L.E]

I know this is a bit off topic, but we don't have total control of our lives. For the simple fact that other peoples actions shape the world, just as ours do.
The problem I'm having is that because you cannot control other people, you cannot control your experiences - say a guy in the street mugs you; you arent in control of that, but it still happened to you.
Most people nowadays only listen to what people say, and what they should be doing is listen to what they say and WHY they are saying it. If you find the reason why they said it, things become a lot clearer.

(I forgotten the point I was trying to make, yet again)

:?

[DavidAlizée]

say a guy in the street mugs you; you arent in control of that, but it still happened to you

Then you chose not to go down the street where it dark, and stay with people.

I know the point ur making and its a good point. But, i belive most people can control there lives the way they want to live them. Obvously not death or accidents. But the general way of life.

[Man from U.N.C.L.E]

^ How come you always reply to my post first DavidAlizee - this is starting to freak me out, and the worst think is, I have no control over it (J/King :cheesy: ).

(Just watch, he wont reply first to my next post, just to spite me :mrgreen: )

[DavidAlizée]

hehehe :wink: "CoNtRoLS" :evil:


..lol

[Icyhot]

Ok here comes some psycho babble....
This is a state where someone becomes completely obsessed with a celebrity and fantasizes about it and its completely natural and actually healthy(as long as you don't start thinking of ways to kill or stalk the celebrity for legal reasons) It gives you a need and needs are what drives a person to continue on in life. This feeling will eventually pass and you will come back to reality but this makes life surreal and gives you a high you are not obsessed because of her looks but because of who she is. Its not because you are crazy the feeling of being with a celebrity gives you a kind of "high" that causes mixed emotion and a extreme feeling of need. Ok I am done! :cheesy:

[Ayan]

Thanks Freud.

[jon]

In my opinion, you're right that it's completely natural, but it's not healthy. An addiction seldom is. And then by telling the adictees that it will eventually pass and that it's just a faze, you make them want to hold onto it longer to prove to themselves and everyone else that it's really their identity and not just a faze. So they will postpone their return to reality. It's healthier to understand that the ideal is to not have the fantasy and not to let it take control. Then your superego will bring you back to reality.

[osiris682]

That's what religions are: a perspective on life. In my opinion, faith should have no part in religion.Religion is mans effort to get and understand God. Nothing to do with Faith.

Dave, i dont fully understand what you are saying here. are you saying that faith has nothing to do with being a christian, or nothing to do with religion? because at least in my religion (baptist) faith plays a big part in it.

[loveherfromusa]

When I say I am addicted to her and that I'm in love with her, I'm in no way forgetting that this is a fantasy. It won't stop me from meeting her and being an appropriate fan. The fantasy doesn't control my life. But I'm still going to enjoy the fantasy regardless of the supposed negative consequences.

[DavidAlizée]

Sorry, what i mean is. Religion is mans effort to get to god. Meaning.. people can follow there religion, and be good in life.. but good deeds cant save us. When i say this, it means imo religion is not enough to get to God. ..Buddhism, Hinduism ectt has no meaning, but beliving in Gods plan will save us.... and ofc Gods plan is in a person Jesus. He was sent to us to save us.

So i say Religion is mans effort to try and please God.

[Joseph]

David, i've been taught that God wanted people to love, so he made us... by please you mean love, yes?

[jon]

So i say Religion is mans effort to try and please God.


I think saying that God needs to be pleased is kind of limiting Him. And if he's truly one, then he wouldn't have emotions that one receives when pleased. But that's more of a General Forum topic.

[haloraven]

personally I think that by living and continuing to live and grow and mature...we please god, and when we enjoy life and praise god and his son...and the world that they have created for us...that in itself is pleasing.

I think your wrong there Davidalizee, religion is not mearly some kind of scam to please god..or for that matter brain wash someone into belief...but rather a religion is a place or thing...hell or a title for that matter...where a person can most fit in...and in that believe what they want to believe......because if you look at it...yes most Christian religions are based on the same core beliefs...but its what surrounds thoes beliefs and the way the beliefs are.....believed..^^
that I think truly makes up what kind of religion you are....the fact that you or I or Jon or Alizée.....or anyone had faith in something is pleasing to god. The reason for you to believe that is noones business but yourself, thats why for one I dont have a "'RELIGION" in the sence of the word.....I am a christian and i believe what christians believe...but I dont call myself a Baptist or a Catholic or what ever...I dotn need some old man standing up on a box telling me what to believe...or "SHOWING ME THE WAY".

And to note on the Fantasy talk a few posts ago...Ive said it before and Ill continute to say it....Life is as you precieve it....your reality is what you want it to be....in that meaning if for somereason you want to believe that Alizée is a godess and you want to warship her...then by all measn i support that....I wont necessarally..( i dont think i spelled that right :cheesy: :mrgreen: ) fully agree with it. But Joseph or Jon or David..or Alizee...atleast to me....you yourself are the center of your universe...both alpha and omega, you do things with your life because you want to...not because some outside force is willing you to. If there is somthing about your life you dont like....then you and you alone have the power to change that, that goes the same for if ....( just as an example) you go off and kill someone....unless your handicaped beofore hand at lest....you did that on your own accord...and you and you alone know why exactly...and thus you will in the end with atone for your actions....but I think that our society today will never EVER own up to the "ITS MY FAULT"...but rather "ITS NOT MY FAULT BUT HIS FAULT".....that in itself is how I have tryed to direct my life...I will deal with my own shit....and I hold myself responsible for what happens..or what I cause to happen....God is there for me to ask advice from...and to confess my sins to...he is there to watch over us all...and protect us form ourselves...I know he wont directly affect the world around me...that would be against him giving us all the freedom of freewill and freedom of choice...but rather gently lead me in the right direction....he and his son are there to guide us on the right path.....but we must be willing to accept that path and as well be willing and open minded enough to see that path ahead of us...

Ok sorry I went off the subject a bit there....hope yall didnt fall asleep :mrgreen: :cheesy:

[jon]

If I am in the center of my own universe... well... I sure don't want to be! That would be an awful lot of responsibility! And if I said it aloud people would think me arrogant. No, I'm okay with being just a regular guy like everyone else.

[Manu]

Spanish youth doesn't give a damn about religions or gods. Can it be that different from where you live?

[haloraven]

Jon why not be the center....dammit you and you alone are responsible for yourself...and that is EXACTLY what i was talking about...the whole "ITS NOT MY FAULT" belief that people have now in to days life.....its sad that people cannot take responsibility for their self.
Not because they cant...or because they dont have the mental power to be able to...but its the simple fact that they dont want to....and that to me my friends is the most lazy friggn thing i have ever EVER seen. I shame that person who cannot take responsibility for their actions....or what they do with their life....what happens to you is in direct corrolation with what you do. That whole belief of what gos around comes around is so very very true...your a bad person...therefore bad will come from your action....where as if you are a good person then good will come from your actions.

Jon screw the peole who believe that...if you would believe and say you are the center of your own world in a psychological sence...and they then judge you as being arrogant...and not commend you for being both valiant and responsible for your own shit...well then thats ignorance on their part.....screw them I say.

[jon]

If you're talking about taking responsibility for your own mistakes and errors then I understand your position (I don't see how that really fits into the whole universe parable though). But to live life like you are the center of the universe? I don't care what other people think, but isn't that the very definition of arrogance?

I think that everyone is just another part of the picture. Everyone has their place and should pursue that position justly. If that is the same as your veiw, how is that being the center of the universe? And if not, what is your veiw? Sorry, it's just that I'm not really seeing what you're getting at.

[haloraven]

Well yes...taking all responsibility for all your actions is a good thing...we all understand that...But what your not seeing is the fact that you are your own center.....its in my opinion that people who cannot see that fact are the arrogant ones.....cuz dammit...you you dont watch out for yourself...make yourself happy and take care of yourslef...then who the hell is....i ask you? In this day and age no one gives a shit about anyone esle....jesus christ just the other day a few buddies and i were walking home from school...durring the night...we come across an old mexican guy who had gotten drunk and passed out while walking home...NOT ONE CAR WOULD STOP to help him not ONE...though we tryed no one would....he looked as if he had fallen down the hill that was next to him...cuz he had scrapes all over his arms...we though he was in trouble...so one of my buddies ran the better part of a mile back home to call the police...and ill be damned it took that friggn cop the better part of 45 minutes to get there...this guy could have truly been injured...and no one cared...

thats what im talking about......if you dont watch for yourself....make sure your happy first...make sure you are safe....etc etc...then who the hell will. When you are out on your own...not living with or even near family...then (this really does not apply to thoes of you who do understand living alone)......then youll finally understand that the world isnt all teddy bears and moms cooking.

I understand thoes of you who think thats a bad outlook on life...but thats how it is alot of the time. Life does suck...but you see it doesnt have to..if you dont want it to........like i just said...if you dont like a part of your life then YOU and YOU ALONE have the power to change it.....thats why i say that.....Ive taken charge of MY LIFE...and taken charge of my responsiblities to MY life.....and I dont have to rely on anyone else to make me happy. But I guess I really cant explain it anymore than that......you are the center. You just have to be willing to open your eyes, really truly open your eyes and your mind and just follow your own path....and allow yourself to be submerged in the beautiful world around you...not be limiting yourself by sticking to the same damn thing day after day after day.....you controll that.....you just have to really want to change to truly understand what im tryng to tell you here.

[Joseph]

Yeah, HaloRaven, today you just gotta watch out for yourself... but it's nice to have some close friends who can help with that too.

I just think of it this way- Life's like pie. You just gotta *breaks out in Hymn* GEtta Piece of the piiiieieeeeeee e yaaaaaahhhh!

I thought of that while I was in line today, getting registered for classes and all. Hehehhe.

Anyawy, I had many hispanic friends in middle school but the Mexican ones who didn't speak English always had scrapes and bruises all over there body, from jumping fences, getting across Guadalupe river, etc (wetback). So, that could be what he has . Or , he fell, and no one cared, because there scared that he'll beat em up cuz hes a minority. :evil: Yeah, was he moving? Did he beckon you? Or was he incapacitated?

[loveherfromusa]

When I am talking to middle school students (12 - 14 years), I try to remember that the world to them is very egocentric. I have announced to some of them that, "Keili, we found out yesterday that the universe really does revolve around you. Just thought you'd like to know." They laugh, but I think they still believe it.

[haloraven]

mabe so...but do you even follow what I tryed to say there.....and yes joseph the guy actually looked like he was dead. he was in a very un-natural position...and he had really really shallow breathing....Loveherfromusa there is a bit of a difference between telling a young child the world revolves around them...and actually feeling it and knowing it as an adult.....I dont expect any of you to understand that fact....mabe most of you are not yet able to understand...or you just choose not too. But as for myself...reality is what i make of it, only what I have seen and experienced is truly real....its all about acceptance of reality....so for instance if the reality is you are a 300lb over weight person...you dont have to be....you got yourself that way...and truly if you want to change then you will....

Its all about having your own will...having to make decisions on a much larger scale then what shoes your gonna wear today....know what I mean....taking more responsibility for your life and the world aroud you...we all have that power of free will and the ability to think for ourselves....god gave us that right.....you just have to be willing to sacrafice to be able to exercise that power. And yes many of us choose not to accept life and live with this ever preasent demenor that things are the way they are becaus they are and you cant do anything about it......but GOD...as I see it would have made the world like that.....but did he...No, Not at all....we as a world society have allowed others to take our lives and our freedom to think for ourselves away. There is always the "MAN" holding us back just that much...keeping us in check....making us do what we truly are not supposed to do on a spiritual level.....im sorry but personally I hate how our world is right now...I cannot change the world...but I can at least try to open the eyes of thoes people who are willing. :?

[Joseph]

That's why so many admire the past, studyt history, BACH.

[Joseph]

Does anyone know how I can make my banners next to each other and not on top so I don't take up so much room?

[jon]

Pat, I don't see where the universe comes is in. Just because a person choses to realize that he can make descisions that will effect his life doesn't have any cosmic implications. The whole parable doesn't seem to fit in with the idea of what you're saying. Unless of course I understand you incorrectly which is entirely possible.

Are you simply saying that a person can change things based on the descisions they make? And also you seem to be emphasizing that they can change more then they think they can according to their willpower. If that's all you're saying then great, why throw in the whole universe thing? It's all very confusing to me. :?

[haloraven]

Pat, I don't see where the universe comes is in. Just because a person choses to realize that he can make descisions that will effect his life doesn't have any cosmic implications. The whole parable doesn't seem to fit in with the idea of what you're saying. Unless of course I understand you incorrectly which is entirely possible.

Are you simply saying that a person can change things based on the descisions they make? And also you seem to be emphasizing that they can change more then they think they can according to their willpower. If that's all you're saying then great, why throw in the whole universe thing? It's all very confusing to me. :?
a person can change things based on the descisions they make? And also you seem to be emphasizing that they can change more then they think they can according to their willpower


thats exactly right.....dont you see...on a religious level....depending on the decidions you make in life....it all boils down to where you go in death....you live a good and loving life...and you enjoy god and follow his path as well as believe in him..and have faith....then in you should get equally the same in the after life....and that gos for the same if your an evil or bad person.....and the YOU BEING the center of your OWN universe refers to a state of mind......if you keep focused on making your self happy....and actually being selfassure...how can i say this to make it understandable for you......humm...make yourself happy...focus on your self....im not saying dont make others happy too....thats all good....but if you can be secure with yourself......then you can do anything.

Its your reality....reality is how you seeit...how you want it to be....its the fact that you have accepted what others have forced you to see and believe...but you dont have to.....this will sound ignorant...but just follow me here this is an example...

My father has been a horrible person to me all my life...horrible abuse that i wont even begin to get into with you guys....so inorder to make my life and myself happy...i cut him out of it...I have that power.....he no longer has any influence in my life....therefore he no longer in My world exists....becuse i wont let him.....and because of that my life has inproved in ways i cannot even begin to describe to you.

that is kinda what i mean......you dont have to accept the world for how it is or what it is.....and in your personal life....you have that power to change if you so do wish to. ITs your life...lead it the way you want...but allow god to walk by your side..having both faith in yourself and faith in god and his ultimate plan then you can truly begin to undrestand what im trying to say...this really is more or less a subject that you have to just experience for yourself... and the only way to do that is to try and understand your reason for you to be here.....you just have to find what that is. Allow your life to become more simple......your driving on the road and someone makes you mad cuz they cut you off.....dont even bother...dont even care.....cut the bad out and only the good will shine through.....thats about as good, once again, as i can explain to ya Jon...

So just start living life...how ever you truly want to....dont allow anyone to take leverage over you...or keep you in fear. :wink:

[jon]

that was a better explanation, pat, thanks! :wink:

I see your point but I chose not to follow it as you do. Interesting philosophy on life. I need to think about it for a while, though.

[Joseph]

With Patrick's outlook on life it lets him work on perfecting himself, in school, good grades and such, and in his work towards life eternal... I mean, it just sets everything into perspective so you aren't drifting along and wasting away. But I mean, heck, it's still okay to waste away with a hard coke and some Gardettos. :)

[haloraven]

.....hehe....Jon it pleases me to NO end that you atleast understand my point....and even more so you are actually thinking about it.....it truly is pleasing to me to see that even though most people wont even attempt to understand...and even more so judge me because i believe the way I do.....and You and everyone else are atleast open enough to not attack me....it means alot....and I do hope that if at all everyone who had glanced at this thread so far has in some way some how taken and or learned from it.....and if I enspire anyone then please chat with me on a messenger sometime...I'll be more than happy to chat about it.

[Joseph]

No prob, Patrick, I'm sure if anyone on this forum knew how I think I'd be labeled as a "rascist bastard" :) But I take a step back, outside the box, and the day many people do that there will be mass realizations;)

[jon]

Thank you for putting in the good word for me, Pat. :P I'll think about any ideas anyone places before me as long as I understand them. And it's always interesting to hear a new outlook on life. :wink:

And I never judge people based on their ideas or get upset when people disagree with me or prove I'm wrong. Even when people get angry at me for the same and call me names and such I never let it effect my veiw of them. The last time I got angry about something like that it was because of an emotional reaction to something else and I really regret that (sorry twiggy :lol: ) But I am glad that there are people like you who are the same way and appreciate that. 8)

[Joseph]

I get angry, BUt I don't call names:) I think an argument is a good thing; if you look at it that way it makes it fun to come up with "comebacks" and support for your argument. Amazing what being in Debate II will teach you ;)

[jon]

Amazing what being in Debate II will teach you ;)

You mean writing out childhood experiences? :mrgreen: I've never been on a debate team. I just try to get experience by having discussions with other people and watching really smart people have discussions. That's just as good as any class. :wink:

[Joseph]

I'm not on the debate team, I'm in Debate:) And I'm sorry for getting angry that day, Jon. AHHAH JON! THat is very Ironic. BEcause that IS what we do in class. We have class discussions everyday, and we all contribute ideas, and such. And to think, we're not snotty nerds who are niched, were cool kids XD'

Back on topic, Meaning of Life- the discovery that reality is dependent on the person expereincing it, and in that retrospect there is NO TRUE TRUTH, and LOVE HER part, well, that goes Unsaid. But heck, while I'm about to go to bed.....

IIII LOOOOVVVEEEEE YOOOOOUUUU ALIZEE!

:cheesy: :cheesy:

[loveherfromusa]

Part of the meaning of life is that you can dream. My dreams and fantasies of Alizée are part of my life. The key word here is PART. I see no reason to be worried about this.

The universe revolving around you is an illusion. It is impossible to not have that illusion. I can't see anything except from my point of view. It's the only view I have. I do, however, need to act as if others affect my reality. One part of maturing is that you realise you need to take into consideration other's views even if you disagree with them. If I were really in control of my illusion, then maybe everyone would agree with me. That would be boring. I believe that the world I experience is real and I must act as if it is.

Is this getting too heavy???????

I think Alizée's affect on the meaning of life is that she helps me experience beauty and sweetness. I thank her for that.

[Tristana]

Is life what you make it ? Definitely not. I don't want be rude, understand me, but I don't agree. So, if people are bad, if they have problems, if they're poor, if they are unhappy, it's their fault ? Everything is their fault, whereas people who just have the luck to be born in the right family have everything they want and no problems at all ? No... Equality is an illusion. Some are born in the bad countries, and they can't make what they want of their own life, I'm sorry but that's the way things work.
And as far as god is concerned... I don't believe in him. I don't know if god exists. And I don't think that if a god exists, he lets everybody take the good or the bad path. What is his role so ? Why does he exist, if he lets everybody do bad things ?
And finally, about your love for Alizée... Yes, it's possible that some of you meet her one day. But she is an artist. Nothing more, nothing less. She is here to sing and bring a little bit of happiness, but you just don't know her. And imagine such things as being her boyfriend, it's making yourself ache. Because she'll never be your girlfriend, because she can't fall in love with a fan.
I know some wonderful things can happen. But don't climb to these dreams. It is so hard when you come back on earth... don't dream too much, it's so difficult to go back in reality...

[Manu]

Good post, Tristana. I see it quite accurate.

Equality is an illusion. Some are born in the bad countries, and they can't make what they want of their own life, I'm sorry but that's the way things work.

I would like it not to be an illusion, and I'm sure that's the way things work, but just cos that's the way (some) humans themselves have made things work (with society allowing it).

I don't think dreams are always bad; dreams and illusions may be good if one knows how to distinguish.

[jon]

I agree with everything in tristana's post except for the part about God which I'm not prepared to answer. Very intelligent though, the other parts.

[Tristana]

Dreams can be good... but they can also be so deceitful ! I was like some of you before... In fact I used to love so much Mylène Farmer, Alizée's songwriter, and I was obsessed by her, and I began to be lonely, I was sure anybody could understand me the way she did. And finally I understood that it was an illusion. Yes, her songs were talking about me, but she was (and still is today) just an artist, someone who can help me in my life by her songs but she can't be here for me, she's not my friend and she'll never be.
But of course there are dreams which help you in your life : dream of being a singer, of being a writer, etc, because we can do our best to make this dream come true. But when it is about a person who doesn't know you, who can't be here for every fan she's got, it's not a dream, it's a fantasy, and it will always be a fantasy.

[Manu]

Then you found the way to distinguish between a song and your own life. But I wouldn't call that a dream, perhaps you involuntarily created a fantasy that trapped you and didn't let you realise what kind of aims in life you gotta have instead (and which, I hope, are high aims). Maybe I call dreams to these high aims. To the dreams you talk about in the second paragraph.

[haloraven]

Tristana, I do understand your point of view....but Ill say yet again, life is what you make of it.....there was in no way did I say it would be EASY to change your life from bad to good...or from good to great. IT all takes both faith in yourself and god....not to mention having the necessary mental drive to do so. Im sorry but If you dont like how your life is...then you do something about it...dont complain about it, dont try and get others to do the changing for you. Life is in everyway not easy, no one can make you change unless you want to. Im sorry I just dont see eye to eye with ya.....but you do make some good points.


but she was (and still is today) just an artist, someone who can help me in my life by her songs but she can't be here for me, she's not my friend and she'll never be.

shes not just an artist, shes a person...not just a figure head of a music fad...she can be your friend, if you really wanted that..you could do something about it. If you really wanted to be in her life then you would do something about it, youd go to france and try and see her...or become a singer and meet her...or hell I dunno work for her record label...be on her band...sheesh you could do countless ammounts of things to become apart of her life....and shes said it before...she cares about her fans and what we think of her.

[Tristana]

Tristana, I do understand your point of view....but Ill say yet again, life is what you make of it.....there was in no way did I say it would be EASY to change your life from bad to good...or from good to great. IT all takes both faith in yourself and god....not to mention having the necessary mental drive to do so. Im sorry but If you dont like how your life is...then you do something about it...dont complain about it, dont try and get others to do the changing for you. Life is in everyway not easy, no one can make you change unless you want to. Im sorry I just dont see eye to eye with ya.....but you do make some good points.

I don't like complaining... I know that we can do a lot just because of our motivation. But I still believe that motivation can't change everything. Well, if you're born in Iraq, and that your dream is to become a rock star, how can you do that ? So you work, you earn money in order to buy what you need, and one day, bombs from USA fall on your head. Could this poor man do something against that ? No. Because sometimes destiny is already made, and we just have to accept it.


but she was (and still is today) just an artist, someone who can help me in my life by her songs but she can't be here for me, she's not my friend and she'll never be.

shes not just an artist, shes a person...not just a figure head of a music fad...she can be your friend, if you really wanted that..you could do something about it. If you really wanted to be in her life then you would do something about it, youd go to france and try and see her...or become a singer and meet her...or hell I dunno work for her record label...be on her band...sheesh you could do countless ammounts of things to become apart of her life....and shes said it before...she cares about her fans and what we think of her.

I already live in France :wink: I'm a French fan from Mylène Farmer :wink:
Yes, she's a person. But do I know her ? Absolutely not. I know what she can feel sometimes because she talks about it in her songs, but I don't know how she lives, what she does everyday. And now, do I want to know that ? No ! She brought me a lot of things. But she will stay an artist for me. I don't know why people who like listening to her would be allowed to enter in her life.
Mylène Farmer is really known here in France. And in front of her apartment, there are everyday almost 10 fans who are waiting for her, wanting to see her, to take a little bit of her intimacy. Is that right ? Is that fair ? She doesn't even know them ! Wouldn't she have the right to live alone, with people she likes ? Would you like to be watched every time you come home ? As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't like that. At all.
Because yes, she's a person. And we have to respect her life. And respecting her life is also respecting she needs to be somebody else than a singer when she comes back home. Respecting that she has a lot of people in her life, who love her, and that people who listen to her don't have the right to enter in this life. In her private and own life.
To me, there's a big différence between what she gives to her fans and what she really is. And because I like her job, because I like what she does, I have respect for the person she is. Although I don't know her. And respect is to me letting her live her life.

[Ayan]

Okay those people in front of Mylene's house are just stalkers. Those are a bunch of the annoying ones. But you, as a fan as you say, you could always find other ways to meet your idol or however you said it. There is no connection between fans and stalkers. If one would say that there is, then it would just be generalizing.

[Tristana]

Okay those people in front of Mylene's house are just stalkers. Those are a bunch of the annoying ones. But you, as a fan as you say, you could always find other ways to meet your idol or however you said it. There is no connection between fans and stalkers. If one would say that there is, then it would just be generalizing.

But who gives me the right to enter her life, by being in front of her house or by anything else ? I don't think I have the right to. I don't think that I would like that if I were in her shoes. And finally... I know that it won't bring me anything. I love her music, but that's all... Yes, I needed time to understand that (almost 5 years). But now I feel much better, believe me. No pain of being far from her, no hate of being ignored by her... She's an artist, I'm a fan, and that's a lot better.

[Manu]

life is what you make of it

I humblely recommend you to read about the Theory of Chaos and the Butterfly Effect, halo. I can post here a little paragraph about it:

The flapping of a single butterfly's wing today produces a tiny change in the state of the atmosphere. Over a period of time, what the atmosphere actually does diverges from what it would have done. So, in a month's time, a tornado that would have devastated the Indonesian coast doesn't happen. Or maybe one that wasn't going to happen, does. (Ian Stewart, Does God Play Dice? The Mathematics of Chaos, pg. 141)

I find it interesting, cos it seems like things are not that easy to explain sometimes

[silentstriker]

A good website (http://mentalhelp.net/) for some (not all) of you. It seems that several people in the thread about about 1 step away from stalking, and 2 steps away from self-mutilation.

Seriously, I doubt Alizee cares to meet some pervert nobody from the US who is totally infatuated with her.

[John]

Unfortunatly this is why many people have bodyguards and must be escorted by a group of people most of the time and or be kept at distance. I could name one or two people that scare me on this forum...but in general its quite sad how some people act.

[Joseph]

Reality is subjective, navarchus.

[haloraven]

Id have to say there is a BIG difference between being a Fan ( even hard core) and being fanatical...( i dunno if i spelled that right)...When someones fandom reaches the point where they cannot live 5 minutes without seeing or hearing the celebrity they are crazy about...then thats when that star needs to be protected...I trust there is No one on this site that is THAT crazy to pull some kind of crazy stunt...just to see lili....but honestly going the some lengths to see her I feel is alright. I would just hope that Alizée would never have the NEED to use a body guard....granted I know she does anyway....but need the protection from crazed fans.

I pray for her success and her safety...for she means the world to me...reguardless if I know her or not. Not because Im some crazy person...but because she means something to me, and if I cant protect her...then I would Hope god will.

[DavidAlizée]

When someones fandom reaches the point where they cannot live 5 minutes without seeing or hearing the celebrity they are crazy about...then thats when that star needs to be protected...I trust there is No one on this site that is THAT crazy to pull some kind of crazy stunt...just to see lili

Sorry, what stunt are we talking about here, i must have missed something? Also, ive never heard, seen or read about any fans that cannot live for 5 minutes withought hearing a song of a popstar. Not that is is a bad thing anyway. I cant get enough of ALizée's songs.

When someones fandom reaches the point where they cannot live 5 minutes without seeing or hearing the celebrity they are crazy about...then thats when that star needs to be protected

I hardly think she needs protecting from fans who listen to her music. I listen to her alot, in my car, at home.. anywhere i can. What about those fans who have thousands of Alizée items, posters cds.. like we have seen on many of her interviews and documentaries...They have so much stuff its amazing. Does she need protecting
from them? ofc not, they simply love her, and when Alizée seen the stuff that guy had, she wasnt freaked out... she was more stunned at how much he had collected. I think Alizée will be more than happy for people to collect all her stuff and listen to her music all the time. Afterall, how can we not...! ?

[loveherfromusa]

"Fan" comes from "fanatical". I love Alizée, but I can lead a normal life without her. My fanaticism is part of my fantasy life. My dreams of her are, of course, an illusion. That doesn't stop me from feeling the way I do about her. I couldn't live my life if I needed to connect with her in some way every 5 minutes.

People on this forum who are worried about us lovers and/or fanatics must realize that there are very few of us who are really incapable of seeing our relationship with her in realistic terms.

Please see us in realistic terms.

[Tristana]

When someones fandom reaches the point where they cannot live 5 minutes without seeing or hearing the celebrity they are crazy about...then thats when that star needs to be protected...I trust there is No one on this site that is THAT crazy to pull some kind of crazy stunt...just to see lili

Sorry, what stunt are we talking about here, i must have missed something? Also, ive never heard, seen or read about any fans that cannot live for 5 minutes withought hearing a song of a popstar. Not that is is a bad thing anyway. I cant get enough of ALizée's songs.

When someones fandom reaches the point where they cannot live 5 minutes without seeing or hearing the celebrity they are crazy about...then thats when that star needs to be protected

I hardly think she needs protecting from fans who listen to her music. I listen to her alot, in my car, at home.. anywhere i can. What about those fans who have thousands of Alizée items, posters cds.. like we have seen on many of her interviews and documentaries...They have so much stuff its amazing. Does she need protecting
from them? ofc not, they simply love her, and when Alizée seen the stuff that guy had, she wasnt freaked out... she was more stunned at how much he had collected. I think Alizée will be more than happy for people to collect all her stuff and listen to her music all the time. Afterall, how can we not...! ?

That's right. Listening to her everytime we can, I don't think it's bad or dangerous. It shows how much we can love her music...

[Los]

^ totally agree with that!

[haloraven]

Davidalizee i like how you completely took what I said there out of its point....the point is...there ARE crazy people out there willing do to just about anything to BE with the person they are fanatical over....has noone here seen thoes people on the news..or talk shows or MTV they litterally have their entire rooms or homes covered with STUFF all about the star they love...they get all nutty when they talk about them.....how many BIG stars have been killed by a crazed fan over the years....quite a few. THAT is what my point was......there is always that one crazy person in the whole lot of fans that a star has willing to do anything and everything to have that star JUST for themselves. Where being a BIG hard core fan is just fine and dandy to me....when one gets to the point where they get all crazy about it...it litterally becomes an OCD...for thoes who dont know pyschology...thats a Obsessive compulsive disorder...agree with me as I know you guys will...but there are MANY people out there like that.....also could be known as a Stalker.

[Ayan]

Ah heck, those "fans" have nothing to do with a certain celeb.
Those people are just somehow addicted or obsessed about a random thing (in this case, a celeb)
Anything could trigger them.
It is only a matter of time when those people somehow explode.
They should be locked away in the first place.

So what if there actually are different stages of fanship. It doesnt really matter.
However, there is still a fine line between a fan and a mental case.

[John]

The only thing keeping Alizee safe from crazed fans (even some on this site) is distance. Imagine if Alizee lived within 100(or less, something close to her) miles of everyone on this forum....I would be quite scared for her because some people here are indeed obsessed(more than just her music/looks) and are more crazed over her than they think.

[loveherfromusa]

The only thing keeping Alizee safe from crazed fans (even some on this site) is distance. Imagine if Alizee lived within 100(or less, something close to her) miles of everyone on this forum....I would be quite scared for her because some people here are indeed obsessed(more than just her music/looks) and are more crazed over her than they think.

So, you don't think someone could be very attracted to her music, looks, personality, ... without being able to keep that attraction in perspective with reality? Maybe that's what you mean by "obsessed" - a person who has no or very few other interests than Alizée and is almost totally involved with her.