TAIWAN....the real name??

[Franka]

Do you support changing the country's name from "the Republic of China" to "TAIWAN" ?
I don't like that, because if we do that, you know what will happened. 8)

[Marcustro]

Yes.
Western Country would help to defense TaiWan and protect YOU and the citizen of TaiWan.

Not to be afraid.
If I am the Head of Hong Kong. I would dial to Russia, UK, France and US to attack them. And use my New Nuclear Weapon in my school lab...

[Dusty]

Someone arrest Marcus. HE HAS NUKES!

[Marcustro]

Stop doing that!

US may help us.

[chinaboy]

all the chinese people will not agree with u .taiwan is belong to all the chinese not ohly taiwanese. you make me disgusting.not all the taiwanese want to change the name .they think they are also chinese.but may be you are an except ion

[Greenie]

Marcustro,
If I am the Head of Hong Kong. I would dial to Russia, UK, France and US to attack them. And use my New Nuclear Weapon in my school lab...

FRANCE? U WANNA KILL ALIZEE OR WHAT?:o :shocked:

[splur]

Voted yes, because I thought Taiwan already changed it to...Taiwan.

And NO, US/UK/France would never support China in this. Taiwan = democratic = US/UK/France. What does China equal? Communism.

[staos]

lol, I am so confused by all the engrish in this thread. :?

Anyways, I always support my home country. GO TAIWAN. :mrgreen:

[Ludicrous Maximus]

Does Taiwan have the to call itself Taiwan? Yes.

Does Taiwan have the right to claim its national existance? Yes.

Should Taiwan do it? No.

Would the Western Countries take side for Taiwan in case of Chinese attack? No.

Would Japan do? No.

Would Korea do? Two times no.

Would the world democracies lower their pants? Yes.

Is Taiwan alone? Yes.

Can Taiwan defend itself against China? No.

Can Taiwan maintain the Status Quo eternaly? No.

Will Taiwan be annexed by China one day? Yes.

Is that fair? No.

Is it already too late? Yes.

Was WWII the time to do Stalin and Mao? Yes.

Was the opportunity missed? Yes.

Will China become like the Western Democracies one day? Yes.

[Le Fidèle]

i just call that part of the world asia :P

[splur]

where they speak and write asian too! :P

jk...

[Le Fidèle]

^LMAO

but seriously, most people do that. at least most people from america :?


lolFranka, why would it be dangerouse talking about changing a name? :cheesy:

[splur]

My guess is that China will have a hissy fit and send troops over.

[fallenONE]

If you think about it

China and Taiwan are still technically at war just that the Red Army was too lazy to cross the strait to chase down the Nationalists (Taiwan's army)

Hey guys, Democracy doesnt always equal good and Communism doesnt always equal bad. If you look back into Chinese history. the reason that there was this Chinese Civil War between the Communists and Nationalists before and after WWII was because one saw the other govnt as ineffective.

The Nationalist Govnt which controlled mainland China till 1949 was a corrupt democracy where bribery was commonplace. THere was an unequal distributance of wealth and that is why Communists decided to rebel. The Communists were mainly supported by the peasants and farmers who felt cheated by the corrupt Nationalist govnt. This is a major reason why Communists won in 1949 and expelled the Nationalists from the mainland. The reason Mainland China was regarded as "evil" was because it recieved Soviet aid and that time period was the beginning of the Cold War. However in 1970s relationships between USSR and China strained which resulted in China going off on its own way. A major reason why China didnt fall with USSR in 1991.

China's recent history is not pretty and that is why there is so much dispute.

In some ways, Taiwan is still techincally part of China but due to the fact that it was a democracy during the Cold War, it is regarded by many nations to be its own autonomic govnt. People think Communism = Death Destruction and Suppression and while the Tiananmen Square Massacre is a example of that, China now isnt the best of the nations but it certainly isnt the worst.

Hong Kong was handed over to China in 1997, it seems to be fine right now.
In fact, I saw a lot of Hong Kong televison series running on mainland China when I was in China a few years ago.
There are growing freedoms in China now

The thing is don't worry too much about this. I have Taiwanese friends here in Los Angeles and I have no reason to want to harm them. The Civil war was the past. not the present, it was a conflict of the previous generation and it's time to go forward instead of staying with the past.

To outsiders, think of this gripe in other situations like. if When America was fighting its civil war and, a few Confederate Rebels fled to islands off Florida and held it there for over couple years. Do you think the USA govnt should say "those islands are rightfully ours and we have the right to regain those lands."?

Personally I think so but I don't mind if Taiwan stays as it is right now. With China economy booming, I don't think this is the same country it was in 1949, think of it more as a capitalist-communists govnt.

Right now I think the issue of so many Islamic exteremists is more dangerous to the world than China "annexing" Taiwan. I mean what is there going to be? Massive deportation to interrogation camps so the Chinese can gain secrets to conquering the whole world?

The Status quo between the 2 nations is very delicate. I think China should stay as it is right now with its booming economy.

Sure China has its black spots but doesnt every other country too? America went to war in Iraq based on "evidence of nuclear weapons" and it found NONE. Japan had massacred over 100,000 Chinese in the Rape of Naking. Germany..... England killed off many Irish during the Orange Conquest of Ireland. Italy annexed Ethiopia just so Mussolini can brag off. Stalin did many things..... Israel and the treatment of native Palestineans..... America and its treatment of Native Americans who are basically wiped out...

[chinaboy]

the head of taiwan province want to attack shanghai by missle. he is a crazy man

[Tyza]

Does Taiwan have the to call itself Taiwan? Yes.

Does Taiwan have the right to claim its national existance? Yes.

Should Taiwan do it? No.

Would the Western Countries take side for Taiwan in case of Chinese attack? No.

Would Japan do? No.

Would Korea do? Two times no.

Would the world democracies lower their pants? Yes.

Is Taiwan alone? Yes.

Can Taiwan defend itself against China? No.

Can Taiwan maintain the Status Quo eternaly? No.

Will Taiwan be annexed by China one day? Yes.

Is that fair? No.

Is it already too late? Yes.

Was WWII the time to do Stalin and Mao? Yes.

Was the opportunity missed? Yes.

Will China become like the Western Democracies one day? Yes.

Nice explication. :)

[chinaboy]

does American people allow the the southern separate from America in civil war 1860-1865? history told me the answer is no !
Does the southern of american have the right to claim its national existance? no ..
so
Does Taiwan have the right to claim its national existance? the answer is no
does chinese people allow taiwan province separate from china.the answer is no.


Will China become like the Western Democracies one day? i think the history will give our the best answer . chinese people also like Democracies but maybe not the Western Democracies pattern . the Western Democracies is not the only choosen.

please don't still stay in cold war period .today is 21century.it is a interdepend world. chinese society is different from Soviet.come to china .you will find a true china .you can find many exciting things.chinese people today don't like talk about
Communism. they work hard for a better life ...
they love peace also dont like war .but if taiwan province separate from china.they will defend for their coutry.i must say that not all the taiwannese want to separate from china,just a few man want to do that .they cannot stand for all the taiwanese. the former American president William Jefferson Clinton have said that those man are the trouble maker between china and American
everybody dont like their coutry separate into several parts...the same to chinese people
my english is not perfect .i hope you can understand what i want to express. .........

[Le Fidèle]

how can you compare china to america?

they're to totaly different! :?


and btw, its not like the south said "okay we give up after the left the union" they gave up a fight. . . . . countrys can split up, so long as the country separating can hold its ground, and be willing to fight!

[Ludicrous Maximus]

Yet, the northern American states were much more democratic than their southern counterpart.

The Chinese-Taiwanese situation is today the opposite.

If today the south USA want to go to independance, they should get. The civil war was in a different world context.

If tomorow the Corsicans really want their independance, it shouldn't be an issue, why not? As for today, I can't tell what they want, I think you need to be born in Corsica to understand it. For Taiwan, if and only if the Taiwanese want to proclaim their independance there is no justifiable reason they shouldn't. Mainland China would never leave this happening but I think it's a sad thing. As you say yourself, we're no longer in the cold war, neither China or the USA should be behaving like if it was still going on. If Taiwan wants independance, a decent stance should be to not oppose it, as for the west it shouldn't get in this business either. I think everyone has to grow up on this.

[fallenONE]

The problem is identifying your ethincity. And here the problem of nationalism rears its ugly head. What is the difference between a chinese and taiwanese?

Is it that a baby born in China would grow up to be a person that preaches communism and hates democracy?

And a baby born in Taiwan would be free and good because the govnt there is a democracy.

Doesnt make much sense to me.

Plus China and Taiwan are virtually in the same in all aspects with the exception of the government

Same language, customs, ethinicity. I find this especially true with my Taiwanese friends here. I mean basically we are all the same.

If it comes down to fighting like Le Fidele said, Taiwan would unfortunately lose. So China would rather reacquire Taiwan thru diplomatic means than with military force which would be frowned upon by the whole international community.

Well, this is world Diplomacy.......it is often times very stupid and unneccesary but it is what makes this world go around

The stigma of China being a Communist country with super tight regulation is false

Sure it might have propaganda about Chairman Mao but basically that is it.
THere are zillions of people at the mall everyday and they basically live the same life as ppl in democracies

[Bizz]

Hey cest plat

trop long a lire

vais dormire

[Ludicrous Maximus]

I agree China is not really communist anymore, but it's definately not as democratic as Taiwan or Western Democracies (being understood Taiwan, Japan and South Korean have based models on the western model).

Yet is that really relevant? What is relevant is what people in Taiwan wants to do.

They are ethnic Chinese, well it's true, but then again Quebec is full of ethnic French, actually they're the big group. But I don't see France claiming Quebec for itself. It would be ludicrous if you ask me.

[chinaboy]

i have many words want to tell you this question .but my english is limited ..
ya~ i will not to say anymore ..i think that if you come to china ,you will understand our feeling. it is not just a democracy issue.......
i want to find a good english teacher ,who can help me~~~~~~~~~ :cheesy: :cheesy: :doc:

[Le Fidèle]

hehe, let me rephrase what i was trying to say. . .


a country can branch off like the confederate south did, and the Union or mainland, will fight to get it back, BUT that doesnt mean that the union will succeed in regaining the lost territories.

[yingying]

we are a people who love peace.
but we do not do not want to disunite our country.

[Achilles]

Do you support changing the country's name from "the Republic of China" to "TAIWAN" ?
I don't like that, because if we do that, you know what will happened. 8)


I agree with your view,my compatriot,my sister.If taiwan announced its independent form China,I promise you that the people'goverment would certainly (have to)resort to force,and war is inevitable.
为什么要独立？本是同根生，中国人不打中国人，相煎何太急？

[yingying]

If you think about it

China and Taiwan are still technically at war just that the Red Army was too lazy to cross the strait to chase down the Nationalists (Taiwan's army)

Hey guys, Democracy doesnt always equal good and Communism doesnt always equal bad. If you look back into Chinese history. the reason that there was this Chinese Civil War between the Communists and Nationalists before and after WWII was because one saw the other govnt as ineffective.

The Nationalist Govnt which controlled mainland China till 1949 was a corrupt democracy where bribery was commonplace. THere was an unequal distributance of wealth and that is why Communists decided to rebel. The Communists were mainly supported by the peasants and farmers who felt cheated by the corrupt Nationalist govnt. This is a major reason why Communists won in 1949 and expelled the Nationalists from the mainland. The reason Mainland China was regarded as "evil" was because it recieved Soviet aid and that time period was the beginning of the Cold War. However in 1970s relationships between USSR and China strained which resulted in China going off on its own way. A major reason why China didnt fall with USSR in 1991.

China's recent history is not pretty and that is why there is so much dispute.

In some ways, Taiwan is still techincally part of China but due to the fact that it was a democracy during the Cold War, it is regarded by many nations to be its own autonomic govnt. People think Communism = Death Destruction and Suppression and while the Tiananmen Square Massacre is a example of that, China now isnt the best of the nations but it certainly isnt the worst.

Hong Kong was handed over to China in 1997, it seems to be fine right now.
In fact, I saw a lot of Hong Kong televison series running on mainland China when I was in China a few years ago.
There are growing freedoms in China now

The thing is don't worry too much about this. I have Taiwanese friends here in Los Angeles and I have no reason to want to harm them. The Civil war was the past. not the present, it was a conflict of the previous generation and it's time to go forward instead of staying with the past.

To outsiders, think of this gripe in other situations like. if When America was fighting its civil war and, a few Confederate Rebels fled to islands off Florida and held it there for over couple years. Do you think the USA govnt should say "those islands are rightfully ours and we have the right to regain those lands."?

Personally I think so but I don't mind if Taiwan stays as it is right now. With China economy booming, I don't think this is the same country it was in 1949, think of it more as a capitalist-communists govnt.

Right now I think the issue of so many Islamic exteremists is more dangerous to the world than China "annexing" Taiwan. I mean what is there going to be? Massive deportation to interrogation camps so the Chinese can gain secrets to conquering the whole world?

The Status quo between the 2 nations is very delicate. I think China should stay as it is right now with its booming economy.

Sure China has its black spots but doesnt every other country too? America went to war in Iraq based on "evidence of nuclear weapons" and it found NONE. Japan had massacred over 100,000 Chinese in the Rape of Naking. Germany..... England killed off many Irish during the Orange Conquest of Ireland. Italy annexed Ethiopia just so Mussolini can brag off. Stalin did many things..... Israel and the treatment of native Palestineans..... America and its treatment of Native Americans who are basically wiped out...

i agree with what he said!he is the real person who had been in our country.we are a people who love peace,but we do not want to split up our country.

so u can think in this way:if the island of corsicia want to be independence from the fronce,then what will happen ????do u know alizee was born in corsicia???but why dou u call aliee une francaises but not corsicaese????

why are the uk are still disputing with the north ireland ??and there are still some violent affaies .does the british love that ?no !does the north ireland people love it ??no !!!

as for the u.s. why the civil war happened ?cause it is a matter about the interest of a whole people ,anyone who want to seek his own priviledge by doing this will be ended by the the choice of the history!i have read the inauguration adresses of linchkin who made the america in to civil war!he insisted that:::::we are one people and one nation !

from the history pespectivs we can see that if we the mainland chinese insists the sovereignty of taiwan ,then we are not alone !! the americans did that !and the french people and the british people are still doing that !we are not alone !!





we are a people who love peace.

i know in many of your eyes we the chinese are evils.but it is not that .we are the same as u.we are doing the same thing as u did, we are learning ,we are still in love problems ,we also love peace ,juctice,and we also want that the world may be a paradise for all the races where the weak secure and the strong justice.we are the same as u !!a world wih diversity coulture may be a world better!

i konw why so many peoplle hold this standpoints!!!!

in the first we are a commnuist party leading country,so u think that we are the alien from u .we are not the same with u .but u are wrong .we are the same .this is not the qutstion about socialist nor the problem about capitilist no democracy and dictitership but we are not in the same interests!!!it is interests that made us not in the same situation !!!

we konw that the diplomacy of our country in the 1960s was very bad .we know that we should not fight with the u.s. army,partly speaking it is our fault......but the more speaking it is not our fault !!!!!!it is the soviet union who drove us to fight with the u.s. army.we were a backward country then,we have no choice if the soviet union want us to do that, because we have nothing !!!!!!!!!!all the things we were using were made in russia!!!!!!

generally speaking, we were the utility in the hands of the soviet union .it is the fault of the soviet union.

and then it is the fault of the commender of the u.s.army Mc .aser (we call in this way,he was the chief officer of the u.s. in the world war 2.it is his fault but not the fault of the u.s. government nor the fault of the u.s. soliders!!!!!!in the originally opinion of the u.s. government they want only to drive the north korea army to the N38 line ,but not go on attacking !!but Mc .aser did not listened to the u.s. government ,he went on attacking !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and even he bombed our teritories!!!!!!!!!!! Mc .aser is a man who love war ,who want to see the mother without child ,who want to be a destroyer,though he defeated the japanese in the world war 2 ,but i do not lov him .he is a man who love peace .

so u may ask why Mc .aser did not listened to the u.s. government????????

why ????????

it is his own personel interest !!!WE know that when in the 1950 in the u.s. the three chief importent person are TRUMAN ,eisenhowever and Mc .aser .eisenhowever was the chief officer in the world war 2 of the EU part!!so i may ask u this question ::::::::if Mc .aser want to be the president of the u.s. then who will stand in his way ????it is eisenhowever!!!! Mc .aser did not as well as eisenhowever did in the world war two !!!!!!so he want to improve his contributions to the u.s. people!!!!!and then in the elections he will have enough political capital to win the president election !!!!!!!

it is not the fault of the u.s. army ,nor the u.s. soliders .nor the chinese force ,,,,but the fault of the soviet union and Mc .aser himself !!!!!!!


since we were in the war situation,,so we do not trust each other. we do not communicate much !there are prejudices between us !we do not know about each other!!!!!!!but we are the same !!!!!!!!

generally speaking ,we the chinese people do not have bad ideas with the west countries especially the u.s. and france .it is a fact that :::::it is only the u.s. that who did not aggressed our country in the west world .the u.k aggressed us . the russia did .the french did .german did .but the u.s. did not do that ..every common people have good comments about the u.s........and now the most famous university in our country was founded with the aid of the u.s. !!!!!!!!!!!! fo me i love america !!!it is a history joke that seems to devided us !!!i love america..and we the chinese people remember that there were more than 2000 u.s. air force soliders died in our country in the war anti-japanese..we still remember that .

as to french ,we also give a high commment .we think it is a country exquisite,a people romantic ,a people who love art ,who love philosophy,who love peace,who are the most humane!!!!!!! i love french !!!!!!!!




so since we are the same why are we in the prejudice situation ,u may wonder !!!!!!!!!!!!it is the lack of comunication !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wellcome u to our country,we are the same with u ,and we are a peace-loving people .if u come here ,then u will know that we are not the same as u had been imagined!

i know in your school u were taught that china is a dictiater country ,and the communist is evil ..........we are not ..........i was born in 1983/10/06,i know that when we were young there are still existence of the soviet union .and the old views in our minds are not easily to change ,,and the history books are lagged to the reality !!!!!!!we should see the world in a varying pespective!!!!!!!!!!the history books are the hiers of the cold war. we are living in the 21 century !



we should comunicate much,we should know about much !!!!!!!!






as to the subject of democracy , i want to write that :::::::::::::::::::

a man from the west said that : there is not eternal friends but eternal interests !!a man who proclaims democracy every is just the symptom of the u.s. culture victory.do not forget that it is the u.s. who raising the democracy flag always !it is the culture violent and the culture colonize!i think the french people may know it much !!!!!!!we are living in a world which was was founded in the u.s. order and regurations,,we are all in a prison !!!!

i do not love dictater ,l love democracy much !!!!but does the democracy is always better than the dictator ??????no !!!!! democracy is low in efficient !and the council in many countries is forum for invective!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i love freedom too ,but if a dictater country whose leaders are wise and smart and are in the interest of the people ,,then it is the dictater country who runs well because we are more high in efficiency !

who is the better ???dictater ? democracy ?no one can answer this question .

to raise the democracy flag is in the interest of the u.s. !!!there is no eternal friends but eternal interest .

though we are in a dictator leading party but we are very freedom ,we can do the same things as you have done .

i do not love the commnist ,and i do not love the government ,but i love my race ,i love the people in this areas ,i love my culture , i love the preety girl here ,i love the people called HAN race !





we are the same !

we should communicate much !

if u come to china ,u will change your old viewpoints !

wellcome all of the friends in the world who love peace come to china,we are the same !

[yingying]

The problem is identifying your ethincity. And here the problem of nationalism rears its ugly head. What is the difference between a chinese and taiwanese?

Is it that a baby born in China would grow up to be a person that preaches communism and hates democracy?

And a baby born in Taiwan would be free and good because the govnt there is a democracy.

Doesnt make much sense to me.

Plus China and Taiwan are virtually in the same in all aspects with the exception of the government

Same language, customs, ethinicity. I find this especially true with my Taiwanese friends here. I mean basically we are all the same.

If it comes down to fighting like Le Fidele said, Taiwan would unfortunately lose. So China would rather reacquire Taiwan thru diplomatic means than with military force which would be frowned upon by the whole international community.

Well, this is world Diplomacy.......it is often times very stupid and unneccesary but it is what makes this world go around

The stigma of China being a Communist country with super tight regulation is false

Sure it might have propaganda about Chairman Mao but basically that is it.
THere are zillions of people at the mall everyday and they basically live the same life as ppl in democracies


and he is a man with his own judgement !

[yingying]

him .he is a man who love peace .

so u may ask why Mc .aser did not listened to the u.s. government????????

to modify it as follow :

him .he is a man who do not love peace .

so u may ask why Mc .aser did not listened to the u.s. government????????

[fallenONE]

hehe, let me rephrase what i was trying to say. . .


a country can branch off like the confederate south did, and the Union or mainland, will fight to get it back, BUT that doesnt mean that the union will succeed in regaining the lost territories.

You turned into a girl Le Fidele? :lol: :lol: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

HAHAHAHAHH

Ok, anyways. good debate guys. Good thing none of us are running any countries or else we would certainly be at each other's throats :cheesy:

@yingying : please don't triple post, there is an edit button from which you can edit your previous message And the Mc.aser is MacArthur

It's all good :wink: :D

[chinaboy]

infact he omit a choose that" no, taiwan have no right to change the country's name."
because in constitution of the Republic of China .the Republic of China contain mainland ,taiwan ,hongkong .Macao . if they want to change the name .it must be voted by all the chinese.